#0 · May 04, 2002, 03:12 · BlueLight

I was just wondering if there are any fellow believers out there who are also interested in AP.  So are there?

#1 · May 04, 2002, 03:45 · steveb

Welcome Bluelight   "To be or not to be that is the question" If you were to ask me if I was Christian I would say no. I live my life in such a way that it would agree with the ten commandmets,so in that respect the aswer could be yes. ?

regards Steve

#2 · May 04, 2002, 03:51 · BlueLight

Hey thanks Steve.  I guess I was speaking of being a Christian in the traditional sense.  I view Christ as my guru you know?  So, I think it's great that you follow the ten commandments, but I was referring to being a follower of The Master :) To being familiar with his teachings and a part of a Christian church somewhere...I hope that makes things a little clearer now.

#3 · May 04, 2002, 08:29 · Joe

Hi BLM - I'd fit into that category, although for anyone to be actively engaged in esoteric research of this kind is to already stretch the limits of orthodoxy, so there's every chance that mainstream Christians would refute that I am still one... I wholeheartedly believe that Jesus the man was an absolute Master of spirituality, and several very experienced and powerful occultists I work with say that he was one of the greatest Masters alive.

Of course, I don't put any stock in the dogmatic theology and religion that now shrouds the original teaching. But at the same time I don't agree with the stigmatised and one-eyed views of those who profess to reject Christianity in preference of other truths (ala baby out with bathwater), as given in example after example in a recent religion thread. I wonder how many vehement ex-Christians have had direct and personal contact with Jesus in a significant way? I guarantee you there'd be a lot fewer loose tongues and more heartfelt respect for a True Adept if that were the case.

RE: learning OBE and Christianity - I find through experience that they integrate exceptionally well. I'm also undertaking some personal work in High Magick and I can recall some humbling experiences where knowledge has been given to me during prayer to Christ that has helped me break new ground. In fact, the majority of the 6-month course given in the Sacred Magic of Abramelin the Mage (which Crowley attempted) is prayer and theurgic practice to God and Christ, and many grimoires feature strong invocations of Christ's Name, etc. To say He is irrelevant or impotent today is to be grossly ignorant, as well as offensive to the Majesty of a Deity, which carries it's own Karmic consequences...

Anyway, I ramble.....best wishes! http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

#4 · May 05, 2002, 11:58 · Kodemaster

I definitely fit this category. I call myself an "open-mind Christian". My exeperiences with AP and OBE have brought me much more closer to God, and they have taken my understanding of His universe to a new level.

I could go on forever with my philosophies, but I'll save them for another time. :-)

j e n i

#5 · May 05, 2002, 22:49 · PeacefulWarrior

Yes, I am a Christian "Astral Projector".  I think this is a very interesting question because it brings up so many other questions with it.  First of all, I feel justified to say that anyone who claims to be Christian inherintly believes in "astral projection" although they may not know it and/or understand why.  To be a Christian means a lot of things to a lot of people, to me it means that one believes that Jesus of Nazareth was not only a great prophet and teacher, but the greatest prophet and teacher...and more importantly He is the literal Son of God and our elder brother (we also being children of our Heavenly Father).

To be a Christian also means to believe in things spiritual.  We have a physical body as well a spiritual body.  Although as a Christian I do not limit myself to the study of the Bible, I will use it as an example because most people who call themselves Christians look exclusively to the Bible for their spiritual nourishment... anyway, within the Bible one may find sufficient evidence of prophets and even Christ himself being "carried away in the spirit" when they had visions and experienced spiritual guidance.  Dreams, as we all know, are associated with OBE in many ways...the Bible is full of information regarding dreams and how/why they are vital to one's ability to recieve personal revelation.

When I have more time I would like to post more information regarding the OBE and the Christian belief system.  I do this more for my friends who are indeed Christian but who have not embraced the reality of the OBE as a natural phenomona...one that is vital to spritual progression.
-Dan

fides quaerens intellectum

#6 · May 06, 2002, 00:32 · Grenade01

I used to have very negative feelings towards christianity for certain reasons...
But I have come to respect all religions...as they all seem to hold truth.
(I am particularly fond of hinduism lately)
I truthfully believe all religions are correct... =)

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#7 · May 06, 2002, 05:59 · WalkerInTheWoods

I would not say that I am Christain, though I use to be. I decided to loose any entanglement with just one religion as I believe they all hold truths. I find that the dogma of Christainity is too restrictive and close minded, atleast what is commonly accepted and practiced in my area. I do believe that it has a lot of wisdom and good lessons to be taught if one seeks the truth contained in it. But I also believe there is much more that can only be found outside of any dogma. I respect everyone and their beliefs.

#8 · May 06, 2002, 13:35 · nightflier101

Hello Blue Light,
I was baptised a catholic, grew up going to a baptist church,  baptised again in my teens as a christian, followed a touched by the spirit christian church for a few years. It's all basically the same, tithe ( or give all your money) so the preacher and his wife can live an upperclass lifestyle and drive a jaguar. While we middleclass sit there and wait for Mr. preacher to enlighten our lives like his is. Which never happens...  It's like a trap, he makes you rely on God for everything. If there is an apple tree across the street, you get off your butt, and go over and pick the tastiest one and eat it!  No middleman involved.
I think the bible has some true stories, but it is filled mostly with old superstitions and tales written by religeous thinkers who wanted less anarchy in society which eventually led to laws and government.

I'm not saying I'm an athiest, I just believe If you are true to yourself and others, and enjoy life and let others enjoy theirs, that is all we need.

OBE's had nothing to do with church or God.  It only showed that the mind is very unlimited in its pontential. I discovered a flip side to normal daily life, going to bed at night was now an adventure of discovery. I had the great curiosity of youth, and the energy to persue it.

Nightflier101...

#9 · May 06, 2002, 23:22 · Mankind

I don't think anyone here is really an atheist, considering the subject.

#10 · May 07, 2002, 05:21 · WalkerInTheWoods

nightflier101, that is one of the reason I dislike religions in practice. Looking at them as a whole and in general they do give power to a limited few and these few are only human. We have seen way too much abuse of this power. I personally have not seen any preachers driving jaguars or abusing this power too much, but sadly enough we hear it almost every day. I think that religions are good to study if one does not follow it blindly. I cannot believe how we are raised, our parents tell us not to trust strangers and question things that do not show proof. Then they turn around and tell us that we have to have faith in something that has no proof as being real. No offense to anyone. This is why I feel so strongly that everyone needs to be a free thinker and find their own path. Reguardless if you choose to follow a religion or just be spiritual you should constantly be searching and seeking truth. If you find Christainity to be the truth then great for you, just do not stop your search and start following something blindly.

The Christains that have posted in here seem to be mature and intelligent seekers. But from what I have seen this does not seem to be the norm. Last time I went to a Christain church the preacher talked more about the devil and hell than Jesus or love. From my studies, Christainity's true message is about love and caring. So why does it seem that they think more about the devil? Maybe if Christains thought more on the true message of their religion they would not have such a bad name for themself.

#11 · May 07, 2002, 09:04 · chohan

Well I suppose I can relate to Joe and Daniel here in one respect... there's something to that christ of the bible. Back in 1979 I was 18yr old, minding my own biz, partying, ACDC Highway to Hell days. A few days later I was hanging out with my same band of friends... they were smoking dew and I was trying to explain deep spiritual truths to them. Someone should've locked me up for 6 months back in those days. I almost made a minister until my continuing study of the bible began bringing up more questions than it was answering. Reincarnation was the start. Whatever you do don't say jesus and cayce in the same sentence. :) For those of you searching and looking at things from a christian perspective I would highly recommend the books about daskalos the greek christian mystic written by Kyriacos C. Markides.
At the same time I can relate to fallnangel77. I like to consider myself a free thinker. Over 20 years later, endless searching and learning I can just as easily say I'm a tibetan buddhist, hindu, ceremonial magician. I can leave it all behind and just be "more than my physical body" as Monroe says or just be "consciousness using energy" as Waldo Vieira says. He throws off all religion with nothing more than a shrug and it doesn't offend me so perhaps I am growing? I don't like to be categorized but I will be anything to anyone if it helps us discuss, learn and verify. This present personalty is a sum total of all these belief systems and I don't worry over it much any longer. To be honest I grow tired of all the theory sometimes and just wanna get out and do my own verification.

peace,
chohan

#12 · May 07, 2002, 13:11 · michael

in actual fact as you are aware one can be of any religion and none to experience OBE..the buddhists who are atheist do so..and as you are also i am sure familiar with christian fundamentalists who belive astral projection is the devils work..read an intersting although laughable book the other week going on at considerable length re this very point....apprently we have to bleive in faith..not signs..well thanks but no thanks....I like my own empirical attempts to prove psychic events.....i have a lot of respect for most faiths and none and my abiolities to obe are not necessarily reliant on one or more particluar dogma..at least in my experience...

#13 · May 07, 2002, 13:39 · Vallk

My interest in spirituality in general comforts me because I just did not want to believe in the different religions the man has created. Christianism, with its hell and other rules, is not better than another religion to me. Now I can believe in a God or Power that corresponds better to my needs and beliefs and I am so happy about it, I feel as if at last there is something for me in spirituality.

I have my own rituals that are not meaningless to me, my own good values that are not dictated by the Pope.

Valérie

#14 · May 14, 2002, 01:32 · PeacefulWarrior

"OBE's had nothing to do with church or God. It only showed that the mind is very unlimited in its pontential. I discovered a flip side to normal daily life, going to bed at night was now an adventure of discovery. I had the great curiosity of youth, and the energy to persue it."

I had to comment on the above statement which was made in this thread.  I wholeheartedly disagree with it (and maybe the author didn't mean it the way it came off).  Of course OBE's have something to do with God, God created all that is and we are all one--thus the fact that we are made up of numerous bodies (physical and subtle/spiritual bodies) is a testament to the wondrous creation of our Father.

I am a Christian and the "church" I attend actively promotes personal revelation and spiritual discovery.  There are numerous accounts of prophets recieving revelation and spiritual truths in and out of the body.  Of course it's not something we talk about often for very few are familiar with the phenomena (phenomena because it IS a natural occurence).  I feel sorry for those Christians who think it is of the devil, they,of course, are also the same Christians who I believe don't truly embrace TRUE Christianity.  And what is true Christianity?  Well, I can tell you one thing about it, not too many people know.  It takes too much work and sacrifice...and I am still hiking up it's steep and narrow way.

Much love to all!
-DT

fides quaerens intellectum

#15 · May 14, 2002, 02:36 · Frank

The Astral caters for all "belief systems". On the Physical, it may well be the case that adopting a particular system may have the effect of accelerating a person's spiritual development, thus bringing on the obe experience at a faster rate. However, you must be aware that the planes which cater for the various "belief systems" are, in fact, the lower planes.

Which is a tad ironic, in my view.

On the Physical, adopting a particular belief-system may have the effect of accelerating spiritual development. Once on the Astral, however, it can have the opposite effect; in that your progress will be limited to the lower areas.

On the Astral, the rate of your development is not determined by the intensity of your beliefs, but by the intensity of your curiosity.

Yours,
Frank

#16 · May 14, 2002, 11:00 · PeacefulWarrior

Frank-
You're confusing me.  You say that belief systems tend to slow or limit one's progress in the astral- but then you say:
"On the Astral, the rate of your development is not determined by the intensity of your beliefs, but by the intensity of your curiosity."

I agree more with the latter statement!

-Dan

fides quaerens intellectum

#17 · May 14, 2002, 13:29 · BILL1951

Hello Bluelight,
I would not say that I am a Christian in the generally accepted sense. But in the mystical sense I am very Christian. I read a book called the "Mystic Bible" by Dr.Randolf Stone many years ago. He explaines that the bible is filled with mystical experiences. For example, When Moses went up the mountain (OBE) he saw the burning bush and god spoke to him. He was out of body and observing what the Hindus call the thousand petal lotus. The voice that he heard was the "Sound Current" which permiates everything with sound, light and music. This sound current is also known as the "Word" of Christianity, Shabbd of the Hindus, Logos of the Greeks etc.
When Jesus climed the mountain with his twelve apostles, they were all out of body. That is why they saw him in his "Transfigured form". In eastern mysticism they call this the "Radiant Form. Climbing the mountain is a metaphor for OBE in mysticism.
Religious books are filled with mysticism. But due to the political and social climates in most ancient cultures, the real mysticism was hidden and cloaked in parables and metaphors. The Gnostics were the ones to carry on this mystic tradition in Christianity.  Jesus was all about OBE`s and exploring the "Many Mansions"                      Bill

#18 · May 14, 2002, 14:09 · Ryno

Amen. I couldn't have said it better myself.

#19 · May 14, 2002, 18:27 · manfred

Hmm it is true that religious belief system territories tend to make you slower but in the end all of the planes are worth exploring.

From level 3 to 35.....if you are familiar with Monroe Institute terminology.

Regards,

Manfred

Manfred
http://www.astraltravellers.com/

#20 · May 14, 2002, 19:23 · chohan

I should modify my previous statement regarding "waste time in a belief system area" to would much prefer the "area where I am needed." It seems that a feeling of fraternity is a big part of this. Willingness to be of service and help others. Admittedly assisting others who would be caught up in the real-time zone or inner-most ring (name your flavor), well it would have to be fascinating to say the least. At my present progress I'd be quite overjoyed to be in the training grounds. What can I say... those vibrations gave me quite a jolt. The last couple weeks have found me more focused on dream recall and lucidity as if I'm trying to sneak in an OBE without having to face those vibrations. However, I have great confidence these fears can be faced and conquered... curiosity will win out.

best to you all,
chohan

#21 · May 14, 2002, 20:41 · Grenade01

I wouldnt just say logos for greeks.
I think many christians know the "word" as the logos as well, since word is just translation for logos.

Pretty trippy stuff though religion

I take a bhuddist approach to religion...I read about it...interpret it as best I can...then let it go.  Hopefully from what I read and thought, i become a better person, if not I'm not going to cling to versus and scriptures as literal ...er..law.
sort of...living in the now moment, but apply past to help guide you
or something
hahah nevermind
mainly i just hope im a good person.. and I try not to let my ego get the best of me
you dont need scripture to know thats what most important
(well most people dont anyway)
okay im done

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/You must try some of my purple berries.
I've been eating them for 6 or 7 weeks now, haven't got sick once.
Prolly keep us both alive.
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

#22 · May 14, 2002, 23:32 · weagle

I'm very curious in OBE also a christian, I had my first one by mistake, I had an ear infection when I was a child, went into my pharmacy with my mom and collapsed on the floor and I was actually hovering above seeing my body from above, also hearing my mom screaming for help, also remembering seeing myself being put into the ambulance.  I've met 3 people from very different religious backgrounds first one was catholic christian other one I think wiccan and the last one indian.  This talent is for everybody for any person like others are pointing out, has nothing to do with any religion it's a god given gift.  The three people I met was from my prayer being answered for my brother's phobic condition, amazing how God brings people to help others in need and what was interesting I was given signs few days before I came across them also the last  person was given a sign from God  to help when the previous one left/gave up.  What I also notice the last person I met that can obe, he meditates 4 hours a night, the previous one said only 1 hour, I think it makes a big difference the more time you spend meditating the more stronger you become spiritually and more things you can do I think.  Every person who can obe is different, most I've seen out there are into materialistic gain (won't do it for charity) but there are some who are the most powerful/spiritual are the ones who do it out of charity and that spend more time meditating.  God is charity he created the universe, he wants us to help others and we become blessed if we do charity work be it anything especially helping a neighbour who is an enemy.  What's freaky when I pray the rosary (catholic faith) my crucifix turns gold (ie one time the spikes/body/thorns then the edges/inri sign turning gold), also mother mary just recently her forehead an imprint of a diamond shape was on it (third eye most likely) like I'm actually being encouraged on the otherside to learn about obe so I may someday become like the others.  Even though the evangelists/religious sectors love to scare people away from it but it's something we all have this talent is built into us like bible says greater is he who is in you than is in the whole wide world, or in one quote it says we have a celestial body. Proof in the pudding I'm living by experience OBE is a natural thing believe me.

#23 · May 15, 2002, 00:31 · Frank

quote:
Originally posted by manfred:
Hmm it is true that religious belief system territories tend to make you slower but in the end all of the planes are worth exploring.

From level 3 to 35.....if you are familiar with Monroe Institute terminology.

Regards,

Manfred

Manfred
http://www.astraltravellers.com/
Yes, I quite agree. If you can recognise these areas for what they are then there is no problem, you won't get stuck in them. Therein lies the problem.

Yours,
Frank

#24 · May 15, 2002, 00:40 · Frank

quote:
Originally posted by chohan:
I should modify my previous statement regarding "waste time in a belief system area" to would much prefer the "area where I am needed." It seems that a feeling of fraternity is a big part of this. Willingness to be of service and help others. Admittedly assisting others who would be caught up in the real-time zone or inner-most ring (name your flavor), well it would have to be fascinating to say the least. At my present progress I'd be quite overjoyed to be in the training grounds. What can I say... those vibrations gave me quite a jolt. The last couple weeks have found me more focused on dream recall and lucidity as if I'm trying to sneak in an OBE without having to face those vibrations. However, I have great confidence these fears can be faced and conquered... curiosity will win out.

best to you all,
chohan
If you wish to navigate the Astral with any degree of proficiency, you will have to curtail emotional outbursts such as "joy". The lower planes are sickening places and the entities who hang around there are largely beyond "help". But still worth a look, I suppose.

Yours,
Frank

#25 · May 18, 2002, 05:57 · manfred

quote:
Yes, I quite agree. If you can recognise these areas for what they are then there is no problem, you won't get stuck in them. Therein lies the problem.
Yeah but like Bob Monroe once said: don't label things too much....

I myself don't hang out in the religious belief system territories...I usually go other places...places that match my blueprint more and that is not focus 24 to 26.

Regards,

Manfred

Manfred
http://www.astraltravellers.com/

#26 · Jun 02, 2002, 04:05 · BlueLight

Wow, many more people responded to this particular thread than I anticipated.

I'd like to thank you all for your responses.  I appreciate each one.

I must admit that I've had some success since I last spoke with you all.  Anyway, I wish you all the best!

God Bless

#27 · Jun 02, 2002, 14:34 · Ides315

Hi everyone, sorry I am late.

Yes, i believe in Christ. No, it is by no way conventional. My Opinion:
Jesus was the greatest "magician" that has yet walked the earth. He had the greatest link with the divine. No, Christanity as it is generally taught can not explain it that way. The masses are not ready for such knowledge. The clues are there, and if you are ready you will find them. It is interesting to look at the paths that vary so widely yet bring most to the same spot.

Of note, I have a very good friend that is in a system that comes from the teachings of Jesus. It was what the apostles had learned.

I had not always believed. And the day I did, TRULY believe, I cried for an hour. Something amazing to go so many years and then "see". I am not born again, just a little more awake. I am also interested in many different kinds of Magick, Unfortunatly my friend lives 1000+ miles away now, and it is not very handy to gain tuteledge from him.

I also think many relegions tried to teach the same things, just suited for the different societies they were taught to. Anyway, it is heartening to see so many that do believe in Christ, and practice the various forms of "magick"

Best wishes

#28 · Jun 02, 2002, 16:45 · kakkarot

Daniel: "And what is true Christianity? Well, I can tell you one thing about it, not too many people know. It takes too much work and sacrifice...and I am still hiking up it's steep and narrow way." I have said almost those exact same words many times in my life. it is good to see someone who knows the difference between the religion christianity and true Christianity.

i am interested in AP and would LOVE to be able to do it someday. but i have other things to learn first before i get to do that ;) .

RELIGIOUS STUFF  - don't read on if you don't care :)
BILL1951: no. When the bible says that Jesus climbed a mountain, it means he actually walked up a mountain. It was for the purpose of being alone. Next, Moses, also, actually walked up a mountain and talked to God (if you believe the bible, then you have to realize that this statement is not one of metaphorism, but a statement of fact). Jesus was NOT about mysticism, NEVER did he admonish people to start trying to OBE or take up magick practices. He was not against it either (with the possible exception of magick which i am still trying to figure out), though becase mysticism is merely about more experiences in life. just more tools to help us live happy, fulfilled lives.

A true Christian is someone who does the will of God. what that is, is up for debate by many (and most).

The will of God has nothing to do with what to NOT DO, it has to do with what TO DO. "Love the Lord your God with all your strength, with all your soul, with all your heart, and with all your mind" and "Love your neighbor as yourself" are the two most important commands in Christianity, and everything stems off of them. religion, unfortunately, has a way of making a mockery out of truth. read the book of Job if you want an example (think of the people other than Job as the typical "christians" of today).

~kakkarot

Secret of Secrets

#29 · Apr 02, 2005, 02:56 · redcatherine

yeah there are some of us
even here online at Astral Pulse
ironic isn't it ?
We are a minority it seems
the prevailing wind here seems to be Robert Monroists

I am eclectic by nature
but I would call myself
a Catholic Spiritualist Mystic
one that follows Christ
et al
but one who likes to see for myself

and religion does tend to be
an obstacle to spiritual growth
instead of
the impetus .

but any narrowed belief system
is just as surely
a stone
around the neck of the philosopher
whether the seeker call it
a religion
or a construct of monroisms

as long as we lift each other up
instead of tearing each other down
it ultimately does not matter
all paths lead to the same end
eventually

The interesting thing though
is that some of those
totally devoid of religious beliefs
see nothing in the spiritual realms
they can not see Shamballah
or the Temples of Wisdom .

They see swirling colours and darkness .
Is this just because they develop their energy body exclusively
and not their energy eyes ?

Or is it because they need some faith
any faith at all
to see ? or both ?
I am not sure ,
but I remain very curious
about this phenomenon.
Is there something that keeps an atheist from seeing and hearing angels ?

Could an atheist for example
project with me
and see the mahatma
could they see Serapis Bey at the Great Pyramid pf Luxor
in the moutains of Shamballah
or would they see swirling colours
or darkness
or nothing at all ??

Would what they call
my" illusion " or "delusion "
be so hollow as their darkness ?

I would rather read a book than empty pages .
I would rather watch a movie than sit in the darkness
of an empty but relaxing movie theatre .

How could Robert Monroe have seen
the homes and spirits of the dead as he claimed
but not seen their angels or their avatars or temples ?

What eyes did he see with ?
and whose ??
Was he clairvoyant and clairaudient ??
Or did he build and imagine his own self limiting construct
that perpetuated his belief in human secularism ?

And when I learned that ones with faith
can go beyond his focus 27 limitations
....or to understand what lies before focus 3
than whose ideas are truly limiting ?

I feel he was right to map the afterlife
as a a hierarchy of consciousness
but wrong to profess
that the religious were not at work in their heavens
and that their existence was hollow
and that they could not move on
to his human secular world of work
or beyond it .

I have seen the metaphysical colleges in these realms
and I teach there with my peers . One can engage with the dead
and the live ones in meaningful discourse and discovery .

I feel that Robert Monroe is the Toast without the vegemite .
A bit bland and not worth the calories .
but it is digestible and sustaining nonetheless .
So if one is starving , it is a place to begin from .

Focus 3: State of increased mental coherency and balance
Focus 10: Mind Awake/Body Asleep
Focus 12: A state of expanded awareness
Focus 15: State of no time
Focus 21: The edge of time/space - contact other energy systems.
Focus 22: live ones in comas, or the insane  a chaotic level
Focus 23: dead "stuck" confused about or unaware of their death,ghosts
Focus 24,25,26: Belief  Territories of Afterlifers
Focus 27: Afterlife  free will created by humans resembling earth  bitants.

There are Centers of activity here providing for the needs of human beings in their continuing development in the Afterlife.
beyond focus 27: outside Monroe's realm of human consciousness

Seekers need only  open their energy bodies their minds their eyes thier ears and their  hearts to percieve beyond that 27 .

Monroe is not wrong
he was just incomplete in his truth
as are we all
keep your faith but
keep your mind and your heart open on the journey.
but most of all open your spiritual eyes !

#30 · Apr 02, 2005, 05:59 · Palehorse

Greetings BlueLight,

I'm a Christian, though I've taken to classifying myself only as "unorthodox."  I'm very much into AP, though I've never actually succeeded yet.

Too tired at the moment to elaborate more, but yeah, we're out there. :)

#31 · Apr 02, 2005, 09:48 · redcatherine

The Robert Monroe  Institute claims Focus 34-35" is the locale having group consciousness entities also known as the monad or oversoul. "

Their use of group consciousness as a Universal Mind would fit Monroe's established  Hierarchy but their use of the terms "monad and oversoul" s is very confusing to me because that does not fit into his scheme well and would seem to indicate the lower Monadic realm .

Based upon my esoteric experience and occult  research with my group  , I would argue this assumption more than the previous hierarchy . But if we remove the term Monad and map group consciousness to the experience of the Universal Mind then we can make the post mortem levels fit into Monroe's scheme.

Focus 3: State of increased mental coherency and balance
Focus 10: Mind Awake/Body Asleep
Focus 12: A state of expanded awareness
Focus 15: State of no time
Focus 21: The edge of time/space - contact other energy systems.
Focus 22: live ones in comas, or the insane a chaotic level
Focus 23: dead "stuck" confused about or unaware of their death,ghosts
Focus 24,25,26: Belief Territories of Afterlifers
Focus 27: Afterlife free will created by humans resembling earth
Focus 34-35 is the locale having group consciousness entities also known as the monad or oversoul. -Robert Monroe Institute

Dr. Joshua David Stone early works suggests a 7 plane hierarchy  :
3 Physical
4 Astral
5Monadic
6Logoic
7Devic

adding the mapping of realms by other researchers I synthesise  this :

0 Non Existence
1 Lowest Plane
2 Lower Plane
3 Unaware Physical
4 Astral Emotional
-- Mental (Monadic 1) unaware human being helped to travel
-- Buddhic (Intuitional ) Aware Human when asleep
---Atmic ( Spiritual ) Aware and Projecting Human when awake
5Monadic 2 ( Anupadaka) Meeting of Guides , Mahatma , Archangels
6Logoic  Meeting of Avatars and Traveling to Shamballah
7Devic   Meeting of Devas , Elementals , Thrones and Seraphim
-- Divine (Adi)

Can we match Monroe focus points to Spiritual realms ?
If so , how do they correspond ?

My own research leads me to this attempt  :

---Om Shallah the realm of Living Sound and the Crown of Shallah
13The Other side of the Cone of Consciousness Operation of Ley Lines of Infinity on the Grids and the Tunnels of Eternity
12Universal Mind Focus 34-35 is the locale having group consciousness
---Devic Chambers
---Human made spirit homes Focus 27: Afterlife free will resembling earth
---Ashrams of other worlds ie Reptilians beyond the trajectory of Ursa Major
11Window on Edge of Universe
---Entrance to Hells for Students of the Occult
----Plane of Heavens Focus 24,25,26: Belief Territories of Afterlifers ---Human and Spirit cooperative Manifestations of Metaphysical Colleges
---Temples of Wisdom
---Gates of Death Focus 23: "stuck" confused unaware ghosts
10 Plane of Elementals , Devas ,Thrones , the Vortex ,  Elohim Council
---Human Manifestations ie ashrams of live humans
---Called the Pleaides  lies on a trajectory off that star group in Taurus
---Called Sirius lies on a trajectory off it Focus 21:edge of time/space-contact other energy systems
9 Blue Lodge of what is called the Arcturians of Sirius
8 Group Monadic Soul - Meeting Higher Self
--Temple of Zodiac and Great Clock Focus 15: State of no time
7 Logoic  -Shamballah --Temples of Light
---Ashrams of Chohans Great Pyramid
6 Golden Chamber of Melchiezedek
5 Monadic- work with  guides , mahatma , chohans and archangels
-- Astral Hall of Learning – Spiritual King's Chamber over Luxor - Focus 12: A state of expanded awareness
4 Astral Lower Focus 10: Mind Awake/Body Asleep
3 Physical Focus 3: increased mental coherency and balance
2 Totemic Earth Wisdom
1  Lower Plane of Chaos and "Hell on Earth "

#32 · Apr 02, 2005, 14:14 · Quantitativefool

I am a christian projector.

-Stu

#33 · Apr 02, 2005, 20:07 · Dagalvyi

:D It is nice to see some one asking that! Yes! As a teenager, 20 years ago when I first started to have these uncontrollable OBE experiences I questioned the fact that there was an actual GOD or JESUS. I was raised under a strict Catholic family, so religion was beaten into my head as a child. As I grew my faith dwindled away. I think it must of been about my 3rd OBE experience. It was abad one. There was a huge dark ugly cloud like thing hovering above me. I could feel this evilness around it. I was so scared. I said to myself "I want to see nothing but my God"  After a what seemed to be a lifetime, I seen this beautiful glow. It was a right arm that was kept bending its hand upward as to tell me to get up. It had red and whit linens draped around it. I know it was Jesus. I reached upward toward it and I then awoke. Since then I have had eight visions of Jesus, four were whole body visions 3 were of his right hand, sometimes with a dove. I have had many experiences involving angels. One experience the angel was playing a trumpet then announced  "The Lord Jesus Christ" I, by all means am no religious fanatic. I do however believe that I asked a question and It was answered to me.                                                                                                                                Happy Astraling!!

#34 · Apr 03, 2005, 00:20 · Quantitativefool

Wow, that sounds amazing. I really hope to attain such things at some point in my projecting.

-Stu

#35 · Apr 03, 2005, 23:42 · Dagalvyi

Seek and you shall find! Ask and you shall receive!  God's greatest mysteries are only mysteries to those who do not truly want to seek the answers. Ones faith can move mountains if it is strong enough. The astral plane is full of doors and windows that are just waiting to be opened to you. Time and patience will reveal these things to you and all whom seek them.  Happy Astraling!