#0 · Jun 28, 2003, 15:06 · ronaldo

Hi
what do u guys think of this. My friends sister in law said that god created this web site to educate people about occult activities

// http://www.reachouttrust.org/regulars/articles/occult/aproj.htm

#1 · Jun 28, 2003, 15:16 · no_leaf_clover

you create hell for yourself. in the astral, after death, if you realize that you are dead and fear going to hell, you will wind up in an astral realm that would resemble 'hell', should it exist. if someone kills many people, and then dies, but does not believe in nor fear going to 'hell', then he won't go to 'hell' and he'll have a pleasant afterlife. he might've had some bad karma issues in previous lives though, if you believe in that sort of thing.

personally, i wouldnt believe anything the church says. they believe it's their responsibility to play mommy or daddy to the world and make it their responsibility to convert everyone to their beliefs, even if they have to make up lies/make guesses in the name of the church to make people convert through fear.

#2 · Jun 28, 2003, 16:57 · gdawson6

The only thing that will make you go to what you perceive as hell is your fear that your not worthy to belong to a higher place.

#3 · Jun 28, 2003, 17:08 · MK911

quote:
Originally posted by no_leaf_clover

you create hell for yourself. in the astral, after death, if you realize that you are dead and fear going to hell, you will wind up in an astral realm that would resemble 'hell', should it exist. if someone kills many people, and then dies, but does not believe in nor fear going to 'hell', then he won't go to 'hell' and he'll have a pleasant afterlife. he might've had some bad karma issues in previous lives though, if you believe in that sort of thing.

personally, i wouldnt believe anything the church says. they believe it's their responsibility to play mommy or daddy to the world and make it their responsibility to convert everyone to their beliefs, even if they have to make up lies/make guesses in the name of the church to make people convert through fear.
Man, thats the wise lore, human creates the hell himself, but then thats really churches liability to convert with war and fire and they really must to tell us that projecting is from devil,
but people who believe this lore, they usually believe in rebirth too, but i still think that this lore is for good people and bad people must hear only what church has to tell them.
But church really doesnt lye, if you live like they tell you to live, you really find the paradise in AP when you die.
But i think that i should not tell this story what you wrote to a good religious people like my grandmom, this could have great affect on her paradise, but i really want her to die omnisciently.
What do You think
Edit:
When i think some more about this i find that if a bad person, lets say proffessional killer who knows that he kills good people, (well thats a really bad people), he still knows that this is very bad but he doesnt care and then his subconciousness knows it too and when he dies his subconciousness knows that he has made bad things to other people and eaven if he knew that its his subconciousness that creates what you think you have deserved it still creates the "hell".
You said:
but does not believe in nor fear going to 'hell', then he won't go to 'hell' and he'll have a pleasant afterlife

But i think it doesnt matter does he beleave in hell or not, matters does he beleave he made bad things or not (if he killed people thinking he will make good with this, then he will get the pleasant afterlife) And thats why people beleaving differently, have to kill each other according to different religions. OR if he lived like he lived and does not beleave in hell nor paradise, he get no hell nor paradise in AP and then all what he will undergo, is his life, what is a big suffer in front of our well earned paradise in AP [ 8) ][ :D ]

Anyway if he doesnt beleave in "hell" then when he will die then first he gets that experience what makes him fare of hell (i think that almost every people has heard the word hell) becouse he didnt wait anything after his death and now starts to beleave these things  (he thought that when he dies, there is nohing, no AP) and then he will think about all the bad he made and he will experience his "hell". What do You all think of that?

#4 · Jun 28, 2003, 19:08 · no_leaf_clover

the astral is just a stepping stone to higher dimensions. when our etheric energy runs out, we leave the astral and ascend to higher awareness and enlightenment. i don't know whether or not you're saying the astral contains both heaven and hell and is final, but experiences there after death can certainly vary.

fearing hell would be from the subconscious. that's what i was trying to cover. if you tell yourself there is no hell, but deep down you *know* there is, then that's not such a good thing.. if you've done bad things in your life, anyway... i can also bet you a lot of money that there have been many atheists that have been good, kind people all their lives, only to die and experience the astral and interpret it as heaven/hell. how many atheists, upon experiencing this and being fooled into such a thing, do you think would feel good and expect to go to heaven? the idea of hell isn't worth people suffering like that. the church just takes too many liberties with this one.

youre right that the church has helped some people spiritually, too, but again i don't think it's worth it. you can find much better spiritual aid elsewhere. the church has created a lot hostility towards religions other than christianity, and even within christianity itself there are hostilities, and of course the idea of hell, which we've been discussing, and has probably plagued millions of people that've already passed.

#5 · Jun 29, 2003, 03:03 · Lysear

nobody really knows.

#6 · Jun 29, 2003, 16:00 · jason

despite what ANY rediculous websites/christian fundamentalists may say, there is nothing "evil" about astral projection .many christians often wear a mask of "love thy neighbor","peace to all",etc, whatever, and yet, as soon as they encounter something that doesn't fit into their laughably childish belief systems,they automatically label it as "evil".

adding to this, there are an infinite number of cases where christians use the bible as a crutch, and interpret/slant/bias the mataphors to their own means.

it seems that origionally,christianity wasn't like this until the middle ages,when the religion was corrupted by those seeking, and wishing to remain in power.now christianity is mostly based on fear and ignorance.christianity has been stuck in the middle ages ever since.and the article in the website reminds me very much of the witch hunts of the spanish inquisition-the only difference is that in this age,their power has greatly waned.

Comparing the belief systems of christianity and astral projection,which practices would you consider to be more "evil"?

and even now,there are missionarys travelling around the world to spread their poison to cultures who already have ancient religions,most of which are infinitely more peaceful and beautiful than christianity.
[ :) ]

#7 · Jun 29, 2003, 16:10 · Frank

quote:
Originally posted by ronaldo

Hi what do u guys think of this.
I think it would hurt my head after a very short time. :)

Yours,
Frank

#8 · Jun 29, 2003, 16:26 · beav31is

[}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)]

I will go to hell, and laugh at all the people there who dont realize they are creating hell by thinking they are there. Then I will tinkle on satan's face, declare myself the new ruler of hell, and leave.

[}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)]

#9 · Jun 29, 2003, 19:50 · no_leaf_clover

lmao.. sounds cruel but funny at the same time o.O

#10 · Jun 29, 2003, 20:16 · dino333

hey, when you're hells new ruler, can you kick me out if you see me?

#11 · Jun 29, 2003, 21:14 · MK911

My story was written from view of christians, but i really hate regions whitchever converts with war and fire and i have never been baptised so for them i am PAGAN whitch means SATAN in our language.[ 8) ]

#12 · Jun 29, 2003, 21:21 · dino333

Well, the 2nd and 4th letters ARE both "a"

#13 · Jun 29, 2003, 21:57 · Nick

My idea of hell is ronaldo's avatar. (Just kidding ronaldo [ ;) ])

#14 · Jun 30, 2003, 00:04 · DarkQuest

Okay i got lazy after the first few posts, so i dunno if this was mentioned, but according to the end of the site with how evil spirits can invade ur body, how can that be possible when the silver cord attaches ur astral body to ur physical body?  i mean im not sayin the site is wrong, but it makes ya think about it more.

#15 · Jun 30, 2003, 01:12 · zkrt

Some of you make the assumption that hell exists. Where did this idea of hell come from?

#16 · Jun 30, 2003, 01:50 · goingslow

A recent study came out which pointed to the probability we will go to hell for all this.  There was about a 5 percent margin of error but other than that it seemed conclusive.  sucks.

#17 · Jun 30, 2003, 04:30 · no_leaf_clover

who put that out? the church? god? lmao

#18 · Jun 30, 2003, 06:33 · Frank

quote:
Originally posted by zkrt

Some of you make the assumption that hell exists. Where did this idea of hell come from?
Wasn't the idea some kind of religious notion stemming from way back?

In those days (and to a degree this situation still exists) people's thinking was quite polarised. You had two opposing notions, i.e. heaven and hell. Good people went to heaven and bad people went to hell. Which is all very well. Problem was the applied definitions of the words: good and bad.

Being "good" usually meant something along the lines of, "do as we say" or "give us all your money". And the definition of "bad" was thinking outside the box, so to speak.

Yours,
Frank

#19 · Jun 30, 2003, 11:38 · zkrt

Exactly, its a religious thing... more acuratelly, people somehow derived it from the bible.

Intrestingly enough, the bible does not say that if we are 'evil', and die, we will goto hell. Hell is a concept made up by humans, as you seem to have mentioned. And for some reason, a VERY large amount of people believe it exists.

I'm guessing many people here will rebuke the bible completely, and thus, it strengthens my point:
Hell was made up. It doesn't exist. The origins of the idea come from a misinterpretation of the bible, hence I dont understand why anyone here would believe that it really does exist.

#20 · Jun 30, 2003, 12:55 · nuecreature

Hell is largly a Jewish concept, in the Jewish religion no one can go to Heaven until the messiah 'not Jesus as Jew's do not believe Jesus is the Messiah' arrives until then everyone lives in sheol or the underworld. sheol is divided into two places  one side of sheol is a comfortble place called abrahams bosem, it's for Jew's only as in Judisim only a practicing Jew can go to heaven, the other side is a place is a place of fire and misery made by God for all the non Jews. Read the story of lazurus and the rich man in the bible it will give you an idea of the Jewish afterlife.

#21 · Jul 01, 2003, 14:48 · kozzi

All people can do is theorize...   I have basically stopped worrying about the Bible, because I believe that, not only is it corrupt, but people corrupt what they read out of it as well.  I believe the heart knows what is good.  Who are you harming by having an astral projection?  Just don't become some crazy psycho cultist, and don't fall into the trap of believing that it's more important than life.  It's fun to do, and it can actually teach you things!!!  It taught me something...   (that the Bible is full of crap, because people corrupted it.  So, maybe someone will interpret that as some demonic experience.  It can't be though, because it taught me something that allowed me to be more inclusive instead of exclusive like the Christians, therefore seeming to be more Godly to my human mind).

Anyway, that's my two cents...   also, I just wanted to say that none of these people really know the truth about the nature of the experience of life after death, no matter what they tell you.  None of us have truly died and come back to tell the story... (and no, Near death doesn't count guys).  Sure, having the experience eliminates fear of death in most cases, but to be honest we don't really know that the two experiences are the same or similar.

Kozzi

#22 · Jul 02, 2003, 22:55 · Greytraveller

Whether Heaven and Hell exist objectively or only have subjective validity is, in some ways, immaterial. Because Everyone has the Option, both while alive (via an OBE) or after mortal passing, to Go or to Not go to either Heaven or to Hell.
The point here is that there Is free will and freedom of choice. Perhaps that is the true trajedy of Hell - that those unfortunate 'doomed' souls that go to Hell could avoid going there if they were sufficiently enlightned.

#23 · Jul 03, 2003, 01:20 · weagle

until I can astral project into the center of the earth then I will assume hell does still exist.  To be honest though the very most important thing is your character cause your character is your destiny.  Second to believe in a God that forgives so long as you forgive your enemies or those who done you wrong so the character inside you is forgiving this is from the christian faith.  What I also notice is charity also covers a multitude of sins, I read some books found out that God is called the Uncreated Charity cause he created us out of his love and charity otherwise why would he create us in the first place?.  This is the God I want to be with when I die not the one that condemns you and puts shame and suffering on you.

#24 · Jul 03, 2003, 08:25 · Tisha

Brief history of Hell.

Before Christianity came along, people of many Pagan religions believed in an underworld.  It wasn't really a bad place; it was dark and cold and dank and boring.  In fact, there was a Goddess of the Underworld named Hel - - - was she Greek?  Many pre-christian religions had a god or goddess of the underworld; their energies were dark and severe, but they weren't evil.  Hades was a god of the underworld.

Before Christianitiy, everyone supposedly went to the underworld, before they were reborn, or went to "summerland" (celtic), or wherever dead people went.  In some religions, the conventional wisdom was that a dead person lived in the underworld for three days (quote from presbyterian affirmation of faith re: Jesus:  "He descended into Hell.  The third day He rose again from the dead and ascended to heaven. . ." )

Hell didn't become "hot" for us until Dante wrote his "Inferno." In fact, modern christian ideas about hell come from this book, a piece of fiction.

For those of you who really want to know more about hell, I recommend a book titled, appropriately, "Hell."  Don't remember the author's name.  It's a fat book, lots of info.

#25 · Jul 03, 2003, 09:11 · Nick

That movie with Robin Williams and Annabella Sciorra, What Dreams May Come had that scene where she is stuck in her own thought form/belief system after her suicide. Probably a pretty accurate depiction, at least from a Robert Monroe and Bruce Moen standpoint.

Very best,

#26 · Jul 04, 2003, 23:34 · rutantia

If you really look at it from an educated, and objective point of view (extremely hard to do if you've been brought up in a particular religion, IMHO -trust me...I was there!!!), you will see various connections between Christianity and other religions of the time of Christ.  Unfortunately, I think that so much time has passed that people DO NOT really know the roots of what they are worshipping, no matter what they think.
It seems to be alluded to here, but I would recommend taking a look at the website <www.ffrf.org>..

#27 · Jul 04, 2003, 23:35 · rutantia

Sorry, the link is: www.ffrf.org

#28 · Jul 05, 2003, 13:56 · jason

I haven't read the whole thing yet, but I did see the freedom from religion title at the top[8D].

I once read Dantes Inferno.In one part of hell their was everyone who existed before christianity came along! .you can't be serious.I'm always surprised how childish and stupid religion can be...[:O]


spirituality , on the other hand[ :) ]

#29 · Jul 05, 2003, 17:28 · no_leaf_clover

you mean dante's 'divine comedy'? the inferno may have been a chapter or something.. robert w. smith wrote a score for a play based on the divine comedy, and one of the movements was called 'the inferno'. it was a really morbid piece.. in the middle of the mp3 i have the instruments die down a little in their morbid melodies while all these chains are rattling and clanking. i guess they're the chain that the guys in hell are wearing? its a good mp3.. you guys should look for it [ ;) ]

#30 · Jul 05, 2003, 17:54 · Nick

I have recently been rereading Journeys Out of the Body by Robert Monroe. The first time I read the book was in the late 1970's. I mention that, only because with the passage of time and hopefully some beneficial life experience, the book may have a deeper meaning for anyone wanting to reread it at a later date.

That being said, in Chapter 8 of Journeys , entitled "cause the bible tells me so", Robert Monroe talks about biblical notions of God and afterlife versus what he encountered in his nonphysical travels.

He talks about a region of the astral, which he calls areas of Locale II as follows: "In these worlds where thoughts are not only things, but are everything, including you, your poison or perfection is of your own making. If you are a remorseless killer, you may end up in that part of Locale II where all are of the same design. This truly would be hell for such people, for there would be no innocent, defenseless victims."

He further adds, "Project this outward, and you can begin to perceive the myriad variations. Your destination in the heaven or hell of Locale II seems to be grounded completely within the framework of your deepest constant (and perhaps non-conscious) motivations, emotions, and personality drives. The most consistent and strongest of these act as your "homing" device when you enter this realm."

The concept of thought creating your reality then, which is covered in a number of different spiritual works, seems also to be evident to Monroe in his astral travels.

Very best,

#31 · Jul 06, 2003, 16:25 · jason

based on Nicks last statement, I would guess it means that religious fundamentalists are going to be in a sorry state of affairs when they cross over...

#32 · Jul 07, 2003, 10:57 · Tisha

Actually Nick, I'd call that wishful thinking!  The fundamentalists will go exactly where they think they will - - - their own version of "heaven."  "Like attracts like," they'll probably all end up together.  Or most, at least.  Frankly, their version of heaven seems kind of boring but, Ah, they seem to look forward to it.

The ones I REALLY worry about are those priests who obsess about Satan and temptation all the time.  POOR THINGS!  Can you IMAGINE?

#33 · Jul 07, 2003, 12:33 · Nick

There is certainly something to ponder in what jason and Tisha added. What Monroe reported, as well as people such as Jane Roberts (see ( The Nature of Personal Reality ), is that thought creates your reality.

If we take the religious fundamentalist issue, then certainly there are a lot of possibities, because each individual will be somewhat different from the other. For example, we have the very judgemental type ending up with similar beings (most likely all will be harshly judging each other in their Locale/belief system territory). Yet there may be still others, who while fundamentalist in association, had a good heart and were not quick to judge. Certainly, these latter ones would have a better chance of more quickly moving out of whatever "belief system" they become stuck in to a better level, locale, or realm.

It does get you thinking of the many possibilities though.

p.s. Tisha, I don't want to even start thinking of those possibilities with the satan and temptation obsessors. [xx(] Yikes!

Very best,

#34 · Jul 07, 2003, 14:02 · Anonymous

If hell exists, and it probably does in one form or another, then it is an actual place.  Now I am not a Christian but, I have read a great deal about this religion, as well as others.  Lucifer is not considered a god equal to God so he can be damaged and therefore killed (Michael did this in the second war on heaven that sent Lucifer back to hell).  Also since it is a place with "physical" boundaries then there is an end to it.  So, theoretically, if you have an eternity (which you do) then there is a way out to other places.  Lucifer did to get out of hell once so why could you not do it yourself.[ :D ]

#35 · Jul 07, 2003, 21:43 · Jenadots

Hi everyone.  Interesting topic.  There are many who say hell is right here because being in the physical is the lowest vibrational level of consciousness or the thickest density of soul matter.

Perhaps they are onto something.  I don't know.  I do think that if the various religions didn't have a hell concept, we would still have a place of punishment.  It is human nature to want to know that whoever caused you harm - or harm to your loved ones - would at least end up in a place of suffering.  Most of us want to believe that.

I have often wondered what happens to those who are truly evil in their actions and motivations 10 minutes after they are dead.  The psychic Sylvia Browne claims that you experience all the pain you caused in others.  I suppose you also experience all the happiness you caused as well.

So what do you think happens to the mass murders of the world 10 minutes after they are dead?  Maybe they just get to come right back here with no time off for good behavior.  But it is certainly all too human to wish there is a hellish place for them.

My real question is how do we avoid being around them in the afterlife, whatever and whereever that is?

#36 · Jul 08, 2003, 03:25 · SilverSlider

I just have a quick point to argue: Christianity seems to like to use the idea of emptying our minds and bodys which will result in possession to persuade people to their side. What I don't understand about this is, where are all the possessed people? There are a fair number of people involved in this "satanic" practice, and possession is a rare thing, so wouldn't you see on the news occassionally reports about someone becoming possessed and doing thing that the church expects one that is possesed to do?

Despite the fact that there aren't a significant amount of people that project, I would imagine you one see on the news every once in a while or hear about possession through word of mouth, and this just isn't the case.

#37 · Jul 08, 2003, 12:50 · jason

I also read stuff about how many people w/religious background seem to believe that our bodies will become possessed when inducing AP.this is stupid.our minds,or soul,or whatever you will,NEVER LEAVES THE BODY.conciousness just expands beyond it.this can be seen as a mind-split.

#38 · Jul 08, 2003, 23:27 · Augray

I believe that Hell cannot exist in a christian belief system.  I believe that Hell does not exist.  I also believe this:  Food and water are two basic needs of the human race.  Spirituality is another.  However, cut off food and water and the body will die rather quickly. but if you skimp on spirituality you won't be equipped to deal with life beyond this one.  Maybe this is Hell.  Being confused, for eternity.  Also, for all you people knocking Christianity, you're posting on this website so you believe in higher planes of existence, is it so far-fetched to believe that something came to earth and put on a show and tried to show us a thing or two about life?

#39 · Jul 09, 2003, 01:55 · James S

I have heard testemonies of people who have decided to become christians after experiencing "hell" first hand during NDEs. This includes a old friend of mine who had a bad acid trip go very wrong, trigger an asthma attack and basically suffocated. What he described was the classic burning lake of fire straight out of Dante's Inferno.

I can't help but compare this to some of Frank and Ginny's rescues where souls get stuck in a loop based upon their own worst fears at time of death.

Think about the people, who having been given a good dose of the old hellfire & brimstone sermons made by the churches towards unrepentant unbelievers, get these images stuck in their minds while suffering some kind of NDE, come back saying "there is a hell!", go running to their local minister who chalks it up as one for their side then makes it a big point of proof for their next helfire and brimstone sermon. And so the story is further perpetuated.

James.

#40 · Jul 09, 2003, 05:35 · Frank

There is no such thing as "hell" per se. It's just that within the lower Astral thoughts become things. In other words, as you think then so it becomes, all around you. So, for example, if you become mildly fearful (very common) you will instantly find yourself in a mildly fearful circumstance.

Now here's where people get caught:

When people suddenly find themselves in such a circumstance, rather than thinking, "Ho hum, silly me, better close off quick and allow this situation to dissipate" they take their current circumstances as a sign that their original fears were justified. Which is only natural as, 1) the person felt fearful thinking perhaps something untoward is about to happen, and 2) so it did.

What typically happens next is the person feels fearful all the more thinking something even worse is about to take place... and so it does! However, chances are by this stage the person will have become completely engrossed by their circumstances. Which means it is near impossible to get out of. So they get caught in an ever worsening loop.

Now here's where people who have died Physically, get caught in "hell":

I'm sure everyone here can remember being in a dream where something bad was happening and no matter how hard you tried to extricate yourself from the circumstances, you couldn't. If you managed to get away from one monster, two more would appear, and so on. Or the more you tried to run away, the stickier the ground would become, etc.

When we get caught in this kind of situation, it's only a matter of time before our protective sense of conscious awareness zaps us back to Physical. Or the alarm-clock goes off, or whatever. Which has the obvious effect of bringing a person right out of it.

Within the Phsyical, there are all manner of natural interrupts which come about that "save us" from becoming trapped. But for a person who is sans physical body, no such interrupts apply . Within the Astral there is no need to eat or excrete, no awake/sleep cycle, etc., etc. So if a person gets caught in a thought-fuelled loop there is precious little they can do about it.

The way to extricate yourself from such a loop is to simply stop reacting to your circumstances, i.e. stop thinking, and allow the surrounding circumstances to dissipate. But again that is one of those things which is a darned sight easier to say than to do, at the time.

Yours,
Frank

#41 · Jul 09, 2003, 05:46 · Gandalf

Im sorry, I just read the article alluded to at the start of this post, it is trully laughable. A calssic case of the christian tendency to regard as 'evil' something that it doesnt understand or accept. Christians always complain about others attacking them unfairly, but then somthing like this comes out, although I agree that in this case, the article was by some fundamentalist nuts. The question here is, why post a link to this forum? I suppose it has stimulated some debate but it wasnt particularily helpfull.

I worry for our world, President Bush of the US is known to be a bible thumper and UK PM Tony Blair is showing 'born again' tendencies. Now they want to save the world. Lets hope they dont try to act out their christian 'apocalypse' fantasies with nuclear weapons and other 'weapons of mass destruction'!

Douglas

#42 · Jul 10, 2003, 17:25 · Leviiathan

The christian arguement of the New Testament is that everything changed after Jesus came. Many I have talked to simply disregard the passages of the Old Testament and settle with the new one. See the dangerous inconsistencies?

My Position supports christian dogma as it should be, and opposes the inconsistencies presented by those who view the Old Testament as a burden replaced by new methodology. That form of makeshift thinking not only makes no sense, it is horribly wrong.

To ignore the Old Testament is to ignore the fundamentals of their entire belief system (the errant creation story, Lucifer's fall from Grace, the history and rise of Man, the rules of behavior and laws of punishment issued in the name of God by men claiming to have word from God, or men representing God's name).

Spiritual Anarchism is the path I have chosen because all other paths lead to falsehood. At least, under self-guidance, I can choose to think and reason rather than believe something just because that is what I am taught or told, even if it is a form of ignorance itself.

Spiritual, for me, is not about awakening a God through myself, or becoming a God at all, nor is it something I believe in (It is ridiculous for men to consider themselves Gods if we have no control over our destinies or our place in the universe). Spirituality is about understanding one's place in the universe and learning to play that part. There are also lessons to be learned, and personal knowledge to be gained (to better oneself).
That analysis of Astral Projection is, in my opinion, a hands-down example of christian biggotry told by a blind religious perspective. The attacks were unsupported, and the choice of using an author's personal opinions to judge those with similar interests was questionable.

And to add insult to injury, the author clearly epxresses his lack of reasoning by suggesting that the reason we clear our heads and bodies is to allow this un-defined 'Satan' character to enter us. Ridiculous. This person has no concept of focus.

As for everyone else who wants an interesting opinion on religion and blind faith, and false conceptions of God (the whorship of Ignorance as an idol), I suggest my personal article as a read:

http://leviiathan.homestead.com/files/site/Opinions.htm

#43 · Jul 11, 2003, 18:55 · Mirador

Over eight hundred readings on this posting, and they're those of us who still believe this is not a religious community?

Mirador

#44 · Jul 14, 2003, 17:54 · Leviiathan

Communities are defined by similar interests and not by religion themselves. Whether or not some (or many) of you are religious or not has nothing to do with my personal intentions.