#0 · Apr 25, 2003, 03:54 · Terry B
What is the best way to tackle this situation? How to mantain our objectivity? how do we know whether it's the 'real' deal or not?
Your input is most welcomed.
#1 · Apr 25, 2003, 06:11 · Frank
Looking back, the main reason why I became stuck projecting into this region of conscious awareness for *so* darned long is because there were no desktop computers; hence no Internet and no BBS's to communicate through. So, entirely on my own, it took me just over 5 years of trial and error, projecting around 2 or 3 times per week, to work out I was in some kind of whacky place where Thought = Direct Action.
Having that realisation enabled me to gain a much higher degree of control over my experiences; which stood me in good stead over the years that were to come. So I got to thinking about that place as a kind of training ground which prepared me for all the proper stuff.
Basically, then, what stops you being hampered by this pitfall is the realisation or knowledge this pitfall exists. Once you know, then you have the opportunity of taking preventative action.
A technique I find very effective is, every now and again, I'll come to a complete halt, focus on some detail or other and ask myself a simple question about it. What this serves to prevent is a situation where you begin getting excited. Getting excited has the effect of making you think and move too quickly. So you start flitting here, there and everywhere and your progress is stunted.
This effect is prevalent in accounts of people's early experiences. They tend to follow along the lines of: suddenly I realise I was dreaming; and then I found myself [at some place or other]; and there was this [some kind of event]; and then I saw [some other event]; and then suddenly I was [transported to some other scene]; but before I knew it the thing had changed [to yet another scene]; and then it became [whatever]; and next moment I was awake.
The other pitfall to avoid, is making snap-judgements as to whatever comes about.
This was quite a pitfall for me. Though I've always said I have no particular talent for obe-work, so I'm not sure how valid a yardstick I am. But I do often read posts where people have fallen into this trap without realising it. So I think it must be a common error people make generally.
This error seems to happen more with scary sorts of experiences, where often you read something like: and then I heard a sound behind me; it sounded like [snap judgement about something scary, say a growl or a grunting sound]; and I felt myself getting scared [fear is now released into the 4D environment, instantly placing the person in a scary circumstance]; then the [whatever monster, demon, dragon, et al] revealed itself.
Notice, with this example, the fear was released as a direct result of the person making a snap-judgement about the circumstance of hearing the sound.
Okay, I used the instance of hearing a sound behind you just for the sake of a simple example. Thing is, all manner of circumstances and/or situations can come about within the Astral environment you'd never come across within the Physical. So if a person sets out on the wrong footing of making snap-judgements they will severely stunt their progress, as they'll end up making snap-judgements galore.
A more productive way of dealing with these situations is, rather than making a snap-judgement, take a step back from the situation and ask for more clarity. Always bear in mind the fact that Thought = Direct Action can just as easily work for you as well as against.
Ultimately, the way to experiencing the "real deal" is to work on developing your sense of conscious awareness at least to the same level of acuity, or perception as you have while awake and alert within the Physical. This is the key to making good progress; along with the ability to remain emotionally neutral or emotionally closed, as I call it; and all the while maintaining an air of mild curiosity.
What I always advise if you find yourself slipping from this state immediately take a step back from the situation and ask for more clarity; because it is ever so easy to fall into the trap of making a snap-judgement. Then the emotions begin to flow and you start losing it. Once you lose-it the chances are you will not be able to regain control while within the circumstances of having lost it. So the only option is to nip back to Physical, take a few deep breaths, and project again.
The great thing is, developing the requisite degree of emotional control is something a person can practice while Physical. This is because the sense of conscious awareness we take with us to the Astral, is the same as what we have while Physical. In my estimation, however, it is significantly harder to remain emotionally neutral within the Astral, as it is within the Physical.
So a person who has mild difficulties controlling their emotional-state while Physical, will tend to have serious difficulties within the Astral which could take significant time to overcome. But someone who can easily keep their emotions in check while Physical, chances are, will have only fairly mild difficulties within the Astral, which will be quickly overcome.
Yours,
Frank
#2 · Apr 25, 2003, 07:50 · Terry B
quote:This mean that when your lucid-dreaming you'll be able to AP easily. what I always do is get back to my body from LD and try projecting from there. The advantage is I'm really relaxed. Ther are time however that when I realise that I'm dreaming, the environment just phase or shift with special effect to other environment. How valid do you think both experience? You advise going back to your body if I understand correctly?
Originally posted by Frank
The Training Ground, as I used to call it, is basically Monroe's Focus 22 state. People who are lucid-dreaming are in this state also. Only their realisation-capacity is very much reduced.
quote:Once in a projection I realise that I'm fooling around too much, running around and doing other stupid thing then I decide to stop. I pick up a leaf from some bushes then as i try to see them, the the environment changed a little bit then I was pull backward by a force from behind me.
A technique I find very effective is, every now and again, I'll come to a complete halt, focus on some detail or other and ask myself a simple question about it. What this serves to prevent is a situation where you begin getting excited. Getting excited has the effect of making you think and move too quickly. So you start flitting here, there and everywhere and your progress is stunted.
quote:That describe some of my experience I afraid.
This effect is prevalent in accounts of people's early experiences. They tend to follow along the lines of: suddenly I realise I was dreaming; and then I found myself [at some place or other]; and there was this [some kind of event]; and then I saw [some other event]; and then suddenly I was [transported to some other scene]; but before I knew it the thing had changed [to yet another scene]; and then it became [whatever]; and next moment I was awake.
quote:A trivial question, you just ask for clarity. Is that it? And no need for other fancy thing such as... begging for clarity? [B)]
The other pitfall to avoid, is making snap-judgements as to whatever comes about.
A more productive way of dealing with these situations is, rather than making a snap-judgement, take a step back from the situation and ask for more clarity. Always bear in mind the fact that Thought = Direct Action can just as easily work for you as well as against.
quote:Sometime I'm a tad clueless on the astral. My mind becomevery simple at time. It's like a case of Astral Intelligence vs Astral Stupidity.
Ultimately, the way to experiencing the "real deal" is to work on developing your sense of conscious awareness at least to the same level of acuity, or perception as you have while awake and alert within the Physical. This is the key to making good progress; along with the ability to remain emotionally neutral or emotionally closed, as I call it; and all the while maintaining an air of mild curiosity.
quote:I hope that does not explain the astral stupidity.. I'm not, really.
The great thing is, developing the requisite degree of emotional control is something a person can practice while Physical. This is because the sense of conscious awareness we take with us to the Astral, is the same as what we have while Physical. In my estimation, however, it is significantly harder to remain emotionally neutral within the Astral, as it is within the Physical.
So a person who has mild difficulties controlling their emotional-state while Physical, will tend to have serious difficulties within the Astral which could take significant time to overcome. But someone who can easily keep their emotions in check while Physical, chances are, will have only fairly mild difficulties within the Astral, which will be quickly overcome.
It's also true that my feeling are intensified somewhat in the astral. Now I'm emotional..
Also, a quick question. Why is the building in the Astral so long? Or I'm in the training ground?
Thanks, Frank for your reply.
#3 · Apr 29, 2003, 07:37 · Terry B
#4 · May 01, 2003, 02:46 · Frank
quote:A lucid-dream *is* an Astral projection only with a very much reduced level of self control. If you realise you are dreaming within the dream, you can project directly from there. There is no specific need to go back to Physical.
Originally posted by Terry B
This mean that when your lucid-dreaming you'll be able to AP easily. what I always do is get back to my body from LD and try projecting from there.
quote:There is no need, generally, to go back to Physical. If I may say, your understanding is a little faulty there.
The advantage is I'm really relaxed. Ther are time however that when I realise that I'm dreaming, the environment just phase or shift with special effect to other environment. How valid do you think both experience? You advise going back to your body if I understand correctly?
quote:Being pulled backwards like that could well be due to a physical-body demand. The moment after you were pulled backwards did you end up back in the Physical?
Once in a projection I realise that I'm fooling around too much, running around and doing other stupid thing then I decide to stop. I pick up a leaf from some bushes then as i try to see them, the the environment changed a little bit then I was pull backward by a force from behind me.
quote:The Astral is an environment where Thought = Direct Action. This can work for you, or against you. For example, navigation merely entails having a strong thought as to where you want to be. Get it right, and you'll instantly manifest at that place. Likewise with anything else you may need. Simply put out the Intent, i.e. a concentrated thought, about whatever it is you require and you will have it.
A trivial question, you just ask for clarity. Is that it? And no need for other fancy thing such as... begging for clarity?
quote:This is the "fish out of water" feeling you may have read about in one of my other posts. That's what happens in the initial stages.
Sometime I'm a tad clueless on the astral. My mind become very simple at time. It's like a case of Astral Intelligence vs Astral Stupidity.
quote:Sorry, I don't understand what you are asking here where you say, "Why is the building in the Astral so long?"
Also, a quick question. Why is the building in the Astral so long? Or I'm in the training ground?
Yours,
Frank
#5 · May 01, 2003, 02:53 · Frank
quote:I haven't come across any. But it wouldn't surprise me to see some within the Belief-System regions. There you see all manner of weird and wonderful things going on.
Originally posted by Terry B
Is there anything such as astral grave? Seems contradictory.
Yours,
Frank
#6 · May 02, 2003, 04:17 · Terry B
I don't get back right to my body after being pullsed backward. the pull was short and forceful. I was pullsed back a few meter back. After that I'm still in the astral but the environement looks different. Basically I'm still in the same environment but some tiny bits of fine detail change. It was like I was forced to see a further view or change my focus.
quote:Sometime when I'm in a big building, the building seems like it do not end and builded quite long. I don't see any exit.
Also, a quick question. Why is the building in the Astral so long? Or I'm in the training ground?
At one time I pojected to the astral equivalent of my campus, only they are different in structure and much more beautiful. I found this weird cause at that time I'm at home and I never intend to go there that I remember, just arrive there like that. Although I did remember wanting to contact my friend who is staying at campus.
FYI Frank the astral grave that I saw looks much like christian graveyard. I'm not a christian.