#0 · Sep 28, 2002, 12:30 · Arie

Hello everyone.   I was wondering if someone can help me get started in APing.  I know the most important thing is relaxation right?  You have to get your body 100% relaxed.  Well I've tried to do this and I can only get my legs relaxed.  They become all tingly and lose form etc.  But I can't do this anywhere else on my body.  Does anyone have any suggestions?  Also what do I do after my  body is relaxed.  Do I just visualize myself out of body??

Do I have to develop my chakras before I can have a obe? If so,  why?   Also what does it feel like to have an obe?  like death? Just curious.  Can it be dangerous?  I had to ask!   I really want to have an obe though....I've been reading alot about near death experiences etc....its really fascinating.  Hmm....I don't know what else to say or ask.  Well,  thanks guys.  Adios

Arie

#1 · Sep 28, 2002, 12:47 · Tom

NEW will help a lot with physical relaxation. No one talks about it much, even here, but mental and emotional relaxation actually precede physical relaxation. We just say that you have to find a place to practice where you know you will not be disturbed and where you feel comfortable and safe. If you start by slowing your thinking, regulate your breathing, and use NEW to raise some energy then your physical relaxation should be deeper. When you get stuck with your physical relaxation, going back to slowing the thinking and regulating the breathing (to help with emotional relaxation) will help unstick your progress. After your body is relaxed deeply, the next step is a light trance state. If you can cause yourself to feel like you are moving down (falling, floating, climbing, etc.) for a few minutes you should have your light trance state. Counting backward from 10, 25, 50, 100, or so is also helpful for deepening your trance. Then you apply "rope" or do some sort of projection technique. Working with your chakras tends to be most helpful in separate sessions, such as when you are meditating, or before you want to try an unusually high level projection requiring more energy. As to how it feels and if it is safe, this coming from someone who has not arrived at the goal yet, there is some discussion about the differences between astral projection and lucid dreaming. Astral projection is a lot like going to sleep. There are risks peculiar to astral projection, but the book PPSD and the tutorials here on the astral pulse web site can help you be ready for them.

#2 · Sep 28, 2002, 23:54 · jeff

Hi,

Many times the increasing heart rate is due to some anxiety.  Think about it more and see if there is any fear you have sitting around making it happen.

Just to clarify - our astral double is already formed - its aligned (normally) with us all the time - this is why you can partially project your arm for example - or your leg while the rest remains aligned - all without any surge, etc...

Relax (much easier said than done I know) and enjoy.

Regards,
Jeff

#3 · Sep 29, 2002, 03:05 · Frank

Sorry to sound contradictory, Arie, but I personally regard physical-body relaxation as being the easy part (relatively speaking) and it is by no means the "most important". There are many important considerations that all tend to be as important as each other, at each respective stage of the process.

Anyone with normal sleep patterns allows their physical body to go to sleep at least once, usually every 24 hours. This is a natural process that a person (with normal sleep patterns) doesn't have to "try" or in some way "will" themselves to do. A person simply allows the natural sleep process to happen. So it is the same when preparing for Astral projection.

The difference between allowing your physical body to relax when intent either on sleep or Astral projection, has nothing whatever to do with the physical body . In both cases the physical body simply goes to sleep.

The big difference is your mindstate.

The key difference between Astral projection and ordinary sleep is to keep your sense of conscious awareness awake, while simply allowing the physical body to naturally go to sleep. That's the tricky part: keeping your sense of conscious awareness awake.

Once you can do that, you will find yourself right on the border to the Astral realms. That is really all there is to it. Well, as far as I am concerned, that is.

Naturally, stepping within the Astral opens up a whole new can of worms due to the different ground rules that apply. But these are not difficult to put into practice. And, yes, you may have the odd scary moment or two but you cannot be harmed by any of it (unless you mentally allow yourself to be, of course).

Yours,
Frank

#4 · Sep 29, 2002, 04:56 · Meg

I've always found it kind of strange when I hear people say that you can't be harmed in the astral. How do they define "harm"? Certainly I haven't heard of anyone being physically harmed, but you can definately do some damage psychologically. Even if it is just that you wind up hampering your growth and potential by being frightened out of experimenting. I've woken up from projections quite distressed on a number of occasions in the past, and this does stay with you in one form or another. And what about more unstable people, who are unable to clearly draw the line between the astral and physical worlds...I am positive this must happen...Surely that could be dangerous in itself? If you go into it unafraid and positive, not so emotional - that is what stops the scary stuff from happening.

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

#5 · Sep 29, 2002, 07:17 · Tom

The book PPSD was written for a good reason, I am sure. Having received my copy but not read it I cannot say anything with certainty.

Robert Bruce wrote in Astral Dynamics that relaxation is the thing needed by most people, the lack of which causes problems learning to project. He agrees that it is possible to go to sleep while carrying physical tension in the body and says that it is possible to go into a trance with the same physical tensions remaining. Even so, he says that the remaining physical tension can stop a projection even after the trance is caused and the tension is no longer perceived.

#6 · Sep 29, 2002, 11:12 · Tom

On subjects of which I know nothing, I will keep my mouth shut. On subjects from which I can speak with my own experience, I will speak freely. When I am nothing but a sort of reference librarian relying on other people's experience I will say that this is what I am doing. It is not my intention to cheat by passing on other people's experiences and theories as being completely my own.

There are a few things which I have found to not be true. Until I learned that they were not true, however, they did apply to me. This is because I believed them and made them apply. The biggest source of trouble for me has been reading the experiences of people who have been out of body regularly. That they have experience makes them seem like a valid authority on the subject even when they generalize beyond the scope of their actual experience. Some beliefs have been easier to challenge and overturn than others.

This weekend I have been sick. Even so, it definitely looks like my first conscious, deliberate projection will be soon. There are a couple of very early memories of mine which I plan to look back to and study: spontaneous projection experiences. Maybe by using tactile imagery I can recreate the experiences. If nothing else, they will help to challenge the statements about projection requiring an unusual amount of effort. At no point have I said that relaxation, concentration, creating trance states, or even projection is difficult. Even so, I can see how my (false) belief that projection must be difficult has shown through.

#7 · Oct 01, 2002, 04:19 · Frank

Wow, that was some post, Mr Berry! Thank you for some great insights.

There was one particular sentence that I'd like to stress for the all the beginners out there. Where it says, "Swoop, dip, dive, move through the clouds, have fun! Move in whichever way you like, focusing only on the visualization . [my emphasis]"

The problem with conscious-exit projection is the mind stays fully awake and alert at all times. I mentioned about this in a post a short while ago that it is ever so tempting to be lying there and checking, every now and again, what state of relaxation your body happens to be in. Typical question being, is it any more relaxed than it was 5 minutes ago, say.

Doing this scuppers the process. Because the moment you focus on the physical body, it tends to come awake.

Imagine if you were trying to fall asleep and, every five minutes, someone came along and shook you saying, "Are you asleep yet!" Under such circumstances, sleep would be next to impossible.

For students of this modern-day phasing approach, the key thing to remember is to simply let go of the physical entirely. Merely allow your physical body to go to sleep as normal, rather than in some way trying to make it sleep: which you cannot do, because the more you try and make the body sleep, the more it will remain awake.

Yours,
Frank

#8 · Oct 04, 2002, 21:07 · Tom

It does seem in some ways that I am getting closer, DEBerryJr. :) Your advice is helping. So far no projection, but I have been sick and stressed. I can feel that it is coming soon, if I can catch up on my sleep.

#9 · Oct 05, 2002, 02:23 · Paukki

quote:
For students of this modern-day phasing approach, the key thing to remember is to simply let go of the physical entirely. Merely allow your physical body to go to sleep as normal, rather than in some way trying to make it sleep: which you cannot do, because the more you try and make the body sleep, the more it will remain awake.
Hey, Arie, I'm a "newbie", also.  What baby steps I've taken, I am sure relates to the above quote.  I will use somebody's cd or cassette tape, or a method prescribed in a book, and there I am lying on my back or sitting upright in a chair, but the really interesting occurrences happened when I finally just "gave up" and rolled over, (almost always onto my left side, where I sleep best).  A few times I didn't give up, but I still rolled over onto my left side and just INTENDed to stay aware as long and as deep as I could, because what the various techniques usually have done to me, by then, is to wear my body down to the point where it just wants to be a little more comfortable, that's all.  Last experience I had like this, I simply cultivated the notion of floating over my body, (not much more to it than that), and it wasn't long till I was on my left side again, followed by a brief experience that included what I could best describe as astral monkeys.  Then I lost the images and the sensation of floating over my body, (snapped right back into beta-land),  and found that my heart was racing, (not my heart chakra), but that's another hurdle to get over.

--Paukki

#10 · Oct 05, 2002, 20:48 · James Davis

One more thing:  try to remember your dreams -- I've had incredible lucid dreams and projection-type experiences that I totally forgot about until a random event or thought triggers the memory.  Keeping a dream diary (when I've been consistent about it) has definitely improved my recall, and I've found that I'm doing a lot more on the dream/astral plane(s) than I thought I was, but I hadn't been able to remember it.  It's been helpful for me.  Also, for what it's worth,  my personal experience has tended to support the "Frank/Berry" school of just 'letting it happen'.  I have tried the "in-depth" approach to 'making' it happen, and have (mostly) failed at that approach.  I've come to believe (and have observed that) it is a natural process, as long as we 'get out of our own way', stay focused (or rather, allow yourself to be focused), and try to remember what happens afterwards.  All we're really doing is falling asleep.  Awake.
Good luck!

#11 · Oct 05, 2002, 21:38 · Windameir

DEBerryJr
Let me say it must be wonderful to be such a natural having had many experiences since childhood unfortunately for most thats not the case I can remember only a single dream, if a dream it was of flying as a child I can remember lots of other dreams but only the one of flying, that was so cool. Someone posted that as children we just do simply because we don't see any reason why we can't its too bad that doesn't carry over into our Adult lives. As far as energy work I think it is defenately benificial because just like mucles if we exersize we become stronger, if we study we become smarter, why shouldn't our energy body benefit from manipulation? It also helps to focus our Attention and get our subconcous thinking the way we want it to. I think Frank is on the right track and his advice seems to be helping many people  I like his aproach but so far I have had only a small success in becoming aware in a dream but a success it was http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>. Im wondering where you heard or read that OBing is hard I keep hearing its easy ... Soon I hope I will figure out or stumble on http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0> what  Easy is for me....

Happy Travels
Windameir

#12 · Oct 06, 2002, 16:17 · jilola

Recently I've noticed that the physical relaxation isn't nearly as important as the mental detachedness.
As many of the regulars may have gathered from my previous posts I still haven't achieved a conscious induced AP that seems to be the holy grail of folk on this forum.
What I have learned while pursuing the aforementioned goal is that there are a number of lessons (more commonly  known as obstacles) to be mastered before mone is ready to accept th efact that AP is nothing new, it's something we do every night. The intentional part is what trips us over.
I've come to believe that we exists on the physical and the astral planes simultaneously the only difference being the point of view we allow ourselves to perceive.

Regarding being harmed on the physical I offer the following:
In the bible there is the statement that god created us in hi own image (notice spelling). This means that we are representatives of the All (as in the force that puteverything in motion without regard to a specific religion). As a consequence of this there is no way we can be spiritually harmed by an outside entity in the physical that we don't create ourselves. In other words, what harm comes to you in the physical is because you yourself allow it.

Now that was way off topic but still something to remember while pursuing spiritual goals.

2cents

jouni

#13 · Oct 07, 2002, 19:15 · Donna

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_big.gif" border=0>  Hello D.E. Berry,

I offer you a BIG round of applause!

I,like yourself,find it quite easy to just relax, with my eyes closed, and using INTENT, project to any given location.When I have connected I can even open my eyes, totally lucid, and write down what I am experiencing "there". I have had feedback on what I have witnessed on the real time plane to know that I was actually "there".

I have read so many "you have to do this" rules it is no wonder everyone seems to have such a problem. I, too, do not experience vibrations before I send my consciousness (body double) out. It is smooth. I have awakened from lucid dreams with vibrations, and once upon returning to my body from a lengthy OBE my body was tingling.

Anyway, thanks for your writings, I am looking forward to your books. Are any of them available now?
Donna