#0 · Sep 17, 2002, 14:21 · quebec

Anyone could share in how to calm the mind in trying to OBE.  I am aware of the breath-awareness that Robert suggest in Astral Dynamic, but I don't have success with it.
I focus my mind and it wanders of a couple of seconds later. Thoughts keep cropping up.

#1 · Sep 17, 2002, 14:30 · Tom

Physical relaxation and adjustments to your posture can help with uncontrolled thinking. It can also help to keep in mind that these thoughts are your thoughts and that you are the thinker who is thinking them - so what do they mean to you and why are you thinking them? Much of the uncontrolled part of these thoughts comes from tension. If you can work on removing tension physically, emotionally, and mentally there will be less pressure toward thinking when you don't think you want to think.

#2 · Sep 17, 2002, 16:46 · fredhedd

this is just from my personal exp, which isnt very much right now. i've found that quieting the mind can sometimes be detrimental to projecting. while it's easier to fall asleep when you let your thoughts wander, it's easier to project when your not focusing so much on projecting. the less thought you ahve running through your mind, the less likely you are to be focusing on the presence of your physical body. i've found that unless you can completely clear your mind of thoughts that it's better to have something to concentrate on ie the breath awareness.  if you can completely clear your mind of thoughts then i believe this is the way to go. but if you can almost clear your mind of thoughts, chances are, included in those thoughts are going to be thoughts of not having any thoughts. i hope this makes sense. i believe the idea is to let go as much as you can w/out falling asleep. it's easier to do this if you are focusing on something. the breath awareness is a good tek. as w/ everything it takes a little getting used to. you can substitute it w/ almost anything you feel comfortable w/ . a mantra or a visualization will also work. if you are set on completely clearing your mind, i believe meditation would be the way to go . gl

#3 · Sep 17, 2002, 18:33 · Eukaryote

When I clear my mind completly, I'm never trying to. Typicly I'm doing something else, like trance work, when it happens and it only lasts long enough to realize it. I don't mind; my inner mind is never really a distraction unless I'm very tired.
I had a teacher who said that the focus of all major religions was to make the inner voice SHUT UP! He did a trick with a stobe light that automaticly does it..something to do with the flash frequency and brain waves. I've been trying to dupicate it, but can only get it to work on myself.

#4 · Sep 17, 2002, 20:57 · James S

If you want to practice keeping your surface thoughts and the constant chatter of your"self talk" quiet, try sitting somewhere and just looking and listening without the internal commentary. Another thin to remember is to not try and force your mind to be quiet. This just causes tension. If random thoughts creep in, just let them come and go. Make sure before you start to deal with any issues that could distract you, and then tell yourself anything else is of no importance. You'll then find yourself stopping sentences half way through, because you just couldn't be bothered with them.

Something Robert Bruce mentioned in his articles on AP that is relevant here is when trying to project, you don't really want to stop any thoughts coming in, instead you want to focus your thoughts on the task at hand, keep your mind busy in a productive way.

James.

#5 · Sep 18, 2002, 05:13 · WalkerInTheWoods

Something else to remember is, this like anything else requires practice. Quieting the mind is not something that you can just do, it is something that you have to practice doing and in turn will get better at it. Likewise, if you stop practicing then you will fall back into the noisy mind state and have to work back up to quieting your mind. I have learned this the hard way. So at first you may only be able to remain quiet for a few seconds. But with work you will soon be able to reach any goal you choose. Just remember to keep practicing throughout the day.

#6 · Sep 18, 2002, 10:20 · Adrian

Greetings everyone!

I would just like to add that total achieving vacancy of mind, i.e. so it is completely empty of any thought whatsoever, is an excellent discipline that can be the starting point for many valuable experiences. Accordingly, it is well worth achieving through practice, and maintaining it on a daily basis.

Robert provides pointers and instructions on this in both AD and PPSD (I think), but basically you need to attack any thought as it enters your mind - not aggressively - just firmly. Eventually you should reach the stage where you will recognise the start of a thought, and suppress it before it develops.

A useful first stage is to simply create one single thought in your mind - e.g. a scene - and hold that in your mind without allowing anything to join it. Once you can do that after practice, you can remove that single point of focus and achieve complete emptiness of mind.

I am not sure whether the downloadable OBE Treatise includes this information.

With best regards,

Adrian.

#7 · Sep 18, 2002, 13:30 · jilola

Call me weird but...

I've found that the absolute best way for me to completely stop my mind is to fry or boil something. I really have to fight to stay switched on when I make say an omelette or boil eggs.

More on the topic, all you really have to do is prolong the period before you realize you're not thinking.

2cents

jouni

#8 · Sep 18, 2002, 18:32 · powder

It simply disgusts me when people want to terminate thoughts, because
thoughts are all that we really are and they are the only thing in this
world that is absolutely yours.

Quebec,
I read in remote viewing papers that you need to write down ( or think )
about any issues that concern, make you proud, happy, sad at the moment
and also about any physical details.

jilola,
Isnt that the darnest thing? happens to me when I make pancakes, I just
lose grip on reality http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

.oO0()0Oo.

#9 · Sep 18, 2002, 18:44 · jilola

Powder: Wheee!! I'm not the only one!!!  It's amazing! Just a few seconds of watching somethng fry or boil and I'm totally zoned out of this world.
Actually I once lost two hours in high school. I was sanding a lid for a chest in wood shop (I was in a basement room apart from the rest of the class at the time) and came to after the class had long ended. Wigged me way out!

As for ending thoughts and them being the only thing that is absolutely ours. Even when we chooose to end them they are still ours, actualy event more than normally.

2cents

jouni

#10 · Sep 19, 2002, 03:10 · Frank

quote:
Originally posted by quebec:
Anyone could share in how to calm the mind in trying to OBE.  I am aware of the breath-awareness that Robert suggest in Astral Dynamic, but I don't have success with it.
I focus my mind and it wanders of a couple of seconds later. Thoughts keep cropping up.
The idea of achieving a totally quiet mind seems to me to have sprung from Meditation. (I'm not exactly sure what meditation is, as it's not my thing, so feel free to correct where appropriate.) It is said that this "empty mind" condition can be used as a base in order to experience obe's and so on. Which may well be true. Problem is, to my mind, quieting one's thoughts to the extent demanded is incredibly difficult.

I look at it in the same light as with the classic obe; where you create an "energy body" complete with "silver cord" and so forth. All of which is VERY tricky to accomplish. Unless you happen to be born with some kind of knack for it (which the great majority aren't, including myself). Which is why I am a great fan of the more modern-day Phasing approach.

With Phasing, it is not at all necessary to achieve a totally quiet mind devoid of thought. In fact, the exact opposite is the case as the technique would not work otherwise. Nor does it rely on any kind of special breathing exercises, or energy work, and so forth. So if, like me, you don't feel like you have a knack for the traditional mystical approaches, then maybe take a closer look at the latest Monroe ideology.

Yours,
Frank

#11 · Sep 19, 2002, 08:06 · quebec

Hello Frank, here's something you might be interested in:

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992819

It has to do about a scientific study called: " Brain probe triggers out-of-body experiences  19:00 18 September 02 NewScientist.com news service"

Interesting after all that has been posted on this forum about brain stimulation to OBE.

There's also the web site of Bruce Moen www.afterlife-knowledge.com
He's a graduate from the Monroe Institute, and he gives  2 day workouts teaching how to reach the different Focus levels (27 and higher) without the Hemi-Sync  CD's. He says that we all have the tools to explore the inners world and he teaches how we can develop them.
What I understand from reading and searching on his site is that he teaches the "phasing" as Robert Monroe and what you are talking about.

The way I see all of this, Soul, or whatever name you want to call It, the "I-There" as Robert Monroe called It, phases in and out different states of consciousness. Many of thoses inners worlds are knowns, and called by different names (the physical, the astral, the "no-time" etc...)

When you OBE or better still "Astral-Travel", you have to learn how to "separate"  the astral body from the physical, and once in the astral body you have to separate from the astral body to get to the next world etc...

With "phasing" you are working from Soul and simply phasing from one consciousness to the other. Robert Monroe discovered this in his research after his first book. If I am correct, then this phasing would be a superior way to" travel".

#12 · Sep 19, 2002, 08:06 · Adrian

Greetings!

Vacancy or emptiness of mind is just that - absolute quietness.

I agree once again with Frank. Not only, as in many things, is simplicity the key, but one, I would suggest, should always look towards exactly what one is trying to achieve. Raising energy and creating bodies in whoch to "transfer awareness" is all well and good, but you need to ask why?

I believe Monroe wnent through these same thought processes. That is why initially you see various OBE methods, probably the most famous of which is the "reaching out for vibrations, and pulling them into your body" approach.

Latterly I believe Monroe asked the same questions regarding what it was he was trying to achieve, and how best to achieve it, not only to maximise the value of the experience, but more particularly to remember it - and all as progressive, self-managed experience.

In the context of Astral experience and all that encompasses, Monroe finally ended up with at least two things - the "Gateway" series and "hemi-sync". I do not consider them to be necessarily inexorably connected, because the ultimate objective is to not only experience the Astral spheres and communicate with the beings there, but all higher spheres beyond the Astral, and without the necessity of putting on headphones and listening to CD's. This is one of the focuses if you like of the third sub-forum under the general OBE heading.

I think the course Frank is taking is an excellent and long term one, and where he will achieve all of these objectives, and is much more useful than using more mystic or essoteric etc. methods being attempted, and which will enable you at best to partake in what is often an uncontrolled, unmemorable and relatively meaningless experience, except for the novelty and recreational value. That is not to say these methods do not work or are not worth doing, but rather I am suggesting people should look at the why, whence and withers of it all before expending alot of effort.

With best regards,

Adrian.

#13 · Sep 20, 2002, 09:19 · fredhedd

i thought it would be interesting here to add that almost the same degree of concentration that is needed to keep your mind focused on keeping your mind clear is needed to watch tv. it's so hard in the beginning to keep your monologue quiet because it's never really been tried. we've been watching tv since we were born and any one of us can literally lose our sense of self while watching a movie. while watching a movie, your mind has something to grasp, making it easier to stay focused.  the hard part is keeping your mind focused w/ out anything to focus it on. we are all vey capable of achieving this state, it is very difficult though.
fred

#14 · Sep 20, 2002, 09:31 · Adrian

Greetings!

The state to reach if you can is to recognise the "start" of a thought, and then suppress immediately before it becomes a thought form.

As I mentioned before, I think an effective strategy is to start out by focussing on a single thought - a scene, an object etc.. and concentrate on retaining that in your mind for ten minutes without allowing any other thought joining it. Instantly reject any other thought that tries to intrude.

After you can do that for a week, eliminate that single thought and focus on complete emptiness. Don't "think" about keeping your mind empty, because that in itself is a thought, you just need to be a passive observer.

Once you can achieve that state, you can then introduce the factors you want to focus on or meditate on.

With  best regards,

Adrian.