#0 · Feb 14, 2005, 20:09 · beavis

http://www.randi.org/research/

TELEKINESIS with the psi wheel described here:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17285&highlight=
because its built up so much power compared to a new psi wheel.

I hated that I didnt try it when I was good at telekinesis over a year ago. I lost all my paranormal abilities then. But in recent months they've been coming back.

I'm not sure if I'll attempt it. Setup of the experiment and win and lose conditions must be negotiated with Randi first. I might need money after that. I can barely pay my rent at the moment.

I dont know what the costs are, but the rules say I must pay Randi's expenses to come to me and do the test.

If you're willing to invest some money in this, you'll get a very high payback if I get the million dollars, 4 times your investment or more. How much more depends on competition, Randi's cost, and how likely you think I am to get the $million (minus a huge tax, damn government). Tell me how much money you would invest, how much you want back if I win, and how soon you could get it to me.

If I fail the informal test, which comes before the public test, (some of? or all?) the costs must still be paid, and you will not get your money back.

If you change your mind, please update your post here.

I dont expect everybody to believe I'm honest with their money. I'm sure you can confirm with Randi that I attempted it. If I pass the informal test, the public test will probably be on the news. If I win, it will definitely be on the news. Theres little risk of me taking the money and not trying the paranormal challenge.

If I get your money but for some reason cant get enough, I'll return it of course.

As I type this, my psi wheel has been turning continuously for 5 minutes, which is unusual, but theres no guarantees. Some days it does that. Others it wont move at all.

#1 · Feb 14, 2005, 20:28 · no_leaf_clover

From what I understand that contest is a fake. He isn't interested in people actually proving that kind of stuff scientifically; he doesn't even really accept any genuine offers according to Victor Zammit, but uses the challenge just to say 'it's a load of crap.'

http://www.victorzammit.com/skeptics/index.html

#2 · Feb 14, 2005, 20:42 · beavis

From that link:
Quote CHEATING, LYING and CONNING the American people and others about my sponsored $1million challenge! Read more.This J. Zwinge Randi, once kids' stage entertainer, who makes a career out of being negatively minded about psychic phenomena, has it on the Net that it is impossible for people to 'prove the negative' in relation to my challenge. The idiocy of his claim becomes very clear to those who genuinely and objectively look up the details: I presented 23 different areas of EXPRESSLY STATED evidence for the afterlife .
From Randi's rules:
Quote will NOT accept claims of the existence of deities or demons/angels, the validity of exorcism, religious claims , cloudbusting, causing the Sun to rise or the stars to move, etc
The rules appear to allow telekinesis. Its much easier to recognize when it happens. There might be evidence for an afterlife (without the usual dogma), but it would be vague.

I dont blame him for excluding the things that would be hard to determine if were proven.... unless (for example) you could get a demon (if those exist) to visibly appear instead of the usual "proof", which is speaking weirdly.

Even if he is a fake, its too much money not to find out.

#3 · Feb 14, 2005, 22:46 · Telos

beavis, if you are this confident of your abilities, then I suggest you at least try formal routes to acquire assistance.

Find a lawyer, preferably one who specializes in contracts (and preferably one who is open-minded). Explain to him (or her) the situation, saying that you are interested in Randi's $1 Million Challenge and would appreciate his counsel in negotiating a contract with Randi based on your abilities. He will require a demonstration of your telekinesis.

If you've convinced a lawyer, you're well on a your way to convincing Randi. If you cannot convince a lawyer, you will definitely not be able to convince Randi. If you find a good lawyer, he will settle for compensation after and only after you've won the million (he will probably ask for a sizable percentage, like 20-30 percent), but if you're good, you shouldn't settle for more than 15, because this case would make him famous.

You may also want to consider meetings with representatives from banks and investment firms and tell them you are interested in Randi's $1 Million Challenge, but do not have the sufficient funds. Tell them you are not asking for a loan, and that they will not get a return if you do not win.

This next one may sound out of the question, but you might want to consider having a company sponsor you. If Randi sees you are supported by a business, he will be much more interested in hearing from you.

But I'm just a 4th year economics student, so it's not like I know very much about the real world... just offering my 2 cents.

I'm excited to hear more of your progress.

#4 · Feb 15, 2005, 00:35 · beavis

Thats a good idea, but I dont know if Randi will go for it. He's made himself the master of the whole thing, with freedom to do whatever he wants. I might try it.

I'm about 50% confident that I can perform when the test comes up. Since theres 2 tests, I estimate I have a 25% * X chance that I'll get the money. X is the chance Randi will pay if its proven. 0.25 * X * $1000000 * fractionLeftAfterTax is a lot of money... about $150000 * X on average. Logic rulez!

I'm probably going to ask for 1 hour and that if I move it 1.5 centimeters it be considered passing the test.

#5 · Feb 15, 2005, 09:19 · Frank

Beavis:

Of course I wish you every success, but you have to be careful and realise that at the time (should it proceed that far) then you will be surrounded by a LOT of negative influence. Telos makes some good points. When I read your post it came to mind right away to seek a company (or companies) to sponsor you. There are loads of quite large companies marketing all manner of mystical products, books, artifacts, etc., etc. They would be your best bet.

At first, however, I would strongly suggest that you work on developing your skills a little more. Especially in the direction of working while surrounded by a room full of totally disbelieving types all directing their unbelieving energy at you. That kind of energy projection will be very influencing. The thought occurs to me also that you will probably be required to move the object a number of times, on demand, in a number of different situations in order to discount any possible climatic or whatever other "effects" Randi will dream up as being, in his opinion, influencing of the demonstration other than your psychic abilities.

In other words, I think you will find that it will be him who is demanding that you make it move in ways that he stipulates, under conditions that he will determine.

Yours,
Frank

#6 · Feb 15, 2005, 11:41 · beavis

true it could be hard with that negativity around me. I've done it before with a few people watching, but I dont know what would happen this month, or with thousands watching.

With the devices I would propose to measure everything around it, theres no room for a materialist to explain it if I move it even once.

With much higher strictness, I'd almost certainly lose, unless I get lucky and am able to move it continuously for minutes at a time again. Lots of readers here probably dont believe that...

But if he's a fake, i'd lose regardless of what I do.

#7 · Feb 15, 2005, 12:13 · Tyciol

How about this: beat the challenge, then if you want to beat it again I pay you.

I'd only expect people who've actually met you and observed your TK to invest in you.

#8 · Feb 15, 2005, 13:19 · beavis

Why would I want to take an investment if I'd just won that much money? Its a gamble. If you must be sure you'll profit, you're stuck with 5% per year somewhere else.

#9 · Feb 15, 2005, 22:43 · beavis

It probably wouldnt be him coming for the informal test. He has people working for him.

#10 · Feb 16, 2005, 06:12 · Nagual

What about trying to contact some universities with "parapsychological" departments to setup a cheap/free test...?

Then, they might be interested in sponsoring you...

Maybe try contacting this guy: http://www.annonline.com/interviews/970929/biography.html

Good luck!

PS: $1,000,000.00 is a lot of money; I am pretty sure Mr Randi will do everything not to have to give it away...  So, I agree about getting a lawyer and being backed-up by a group of people or an association.

#11 · Feb 17, 2005, 06:08 · atalanta

Please don't be fooled.  You will not succeed no matter how perfect your score is in the preliminary.  The moment you show any signs of succeeding, you will not be contacted again by Randi for the follow-up test.  Its in his contract that he has a right to not contact you again.

Victor Zammit has a mirror $1 million contract of Randi's, only asking debunkers like him to disprove the scientifically available evidence for the afterlife and paranormal abilities.  Its been available for several years and Randi is aware of it.  Its yet to be claimed because like Randi's there is no way of winning it.  Like previous advisors, please check out Victor's site who is a lawyer and has direct experience of Randi and CSICOP.

If you want a nonsensical challenge, then by all means take up Victors challenge to debunk your own abilities, because you have just as much chance of claiming that reward as claiming Randis.  At least with Victor you will be treated with more respect.

You're not going to listen are you?  Too dazzled by the money.  Ever thought of playing at the casino's?  I've been told that some psychics have made a bundle of money that way.

#12 · Feb 17, 2005, 06:20 · Leannain

good luck with that mate

#13 · Feb 17, 2005, 08:52 · Telos

This kind of reminds me of the Ansari X-Prize, a challenge to see who could build a space-plane using only commercial funds.

The prize was an award of $10 million. However, the space-plane that won costed between $20 and 30 million, according to the rough disclosure of Paul Allen. It was basically understood that the prize itself would not be a profit.

I'm inclined to think that it's the same way with Randi's challenge. Randi will fight tooth and nail with legal and sophist tricks, and will require state intervention by means of the judicial system. The X-Prize used certain numerical standards. Randi's challenge will also require standards of description in the form of a legal contract, which translates to the standards of law.

Hmm. This also reminds me of Miracle on 34th Street!

#14 · Feb 24, 2005, 22:31 · beavis

Regardless of his legal trickery, I've decided not to try his paranormal challenge. I can do amazing things while alone, but I'm not good enough in front of people to pass his test. But I might try it later if I gain a lot more skill.

I set up my psi wheel in the box in front of 15 people who are all at least a little into psychic things. I moved it about 7 millimeters. A few of them saw it. One described a similar but fake telekinesis where the guy rubbed his hands to create static electricity to move it. I agreed that a lot of it is fake, but he wouldnt believe I wasnt doing the same. I did get a few of them to believe it.

#15 · Feb 24, 2005, 23:39 · Ybom

I know how to beat Randi's test, but I'm not skilled enough to pull it off.

Hint: Don Juan de Marco

#16 · Feb 24, 2005, 23:49 · Telos

beavis, I admire your tenacity.

Ybom, you mean seduce a young girl, kill her father and mockingly invite his ghost to dinner, so he will drag you through a sudden and dramatic descent into Hell?

#17 · Feb 25, 2005, 00:05 · beavis

I thought Don Juan (if he really existed) was de Mexico. But you're right, the books about him would be useful for that. If he existed or not, he's not alive now, so I couldnt get training from him.

#18 · Feb 25, 2005, 00:59 · Ybom

Ehh, I could have left off the 'de Marco' part, but I think the only way to beat him is to take control of him. Don Juan as described in Carlos Castaneda's books would have been able to pull this off.

However, I don't believe to do this to someone, since leaving Randi alone offers a major puzzle to be solved by us. How would you untie this Gordian knot? I offered a solution, but I do not wield a sharp enough sword.

Telos, I know you're not that metaphorically challenged. Stop pretending!

#19 · Feb 25, 2005, 02:21 · beavis

Quote Ever thought of playing at the casino's? I've been told that some psychics have made a bundle of money that way.
I've thought of it, but I dont have enough skill to beat the approximately 2% advantage of the casino. I can rarely see physical things (like cards) with psychic senses. I'd have to rely on feeling the future, if I'd win the hand in cards etc or not, and I'm not good at that. Telekinesis is many times stronger than my other abilities.

But my second best ability is a vague sense of peoples' emotions. With practice, I could probably detect bluffing well enough to beat the 2%, independent of their "poker face". I should look into that.

#20 · Feb 25, 2005, 09:06 · Telos

Ybom, Don Juan de Marco and Castaneda's Don Juan are different legends.

#21 · Feb 25, 2005, 12:59 · Ybom

I did a bit more research. I had been under the incorrect delusion created by the movie, that the Don Juan he had taken after was the one in Castaneda's books. I never knew about the poem by Lord Byron (unforgivable it seems).

My metaphor has now been broken! I'll just go duel Don Fransisco de Silver with my magic stick now, to try to gain a little respect back.

#22 · Feb 25, 2005, 14:07 · Telos

That's alright! I thought they were the same, too, until halfway through one of Castaneda's books. I was like, "I'm looking this crock up."

#23 · Apr 05, 2005, 06:27 · migs

Before you even attempt it, I would suggest you contact Victor Zammit.  He IS an attorney, and he's been watching Randi for a long time now, AND, he's completely familiar with the challenge and Randi's "tricks".

#24 · Apr 05, 2005, 06:35 · migs

Nearly every time I visit a "debunker's" site (they like to call themselves skeptics, but it does not apply--a skeptic is one who questions with an open mind).  These people already have their mind made up.  They always mention Randi, as though he's an expert.  He's compared against Nobel prize winning physicists, as though he understands their research better than they do.  If your car broke down and you knew nothing about mechanics, would you value the opinion of a trusted auto mechanic?  If you had a question about quantum physics, would you ask a physicist or a magician?  Every time I see his name as a reference I automatically disregard the site, as it's sure to be BS.

#25 · Apr 10, 2005, 17:59 · Frank

Like I always say, sceptics always demand 100% from everyone but themselves.

Yours,
Frank

#26 · Jun 07, 2005, 23:09 · migs

A true skeptic has an open mind, and is seeking as much knowledge as possible before they make a decision/form an opinion.  Randi has no science background and yet attempts to make a debate from afar with Nobel prize winning physicists, and many highly qualified scientists who rely on empirical evidence from research to form hypothesis and theories--and usually will never make a claim that they are absolutely correct.  How he is elevated to such a position of "authority" on topics he has little knowledge and expertise about is beyond me.  If I even see his name listed as a source of information or an expert, it is enough to cause me to look no further--what's the point?  He is virtually guaranteed to have made his decision about something prior to examining the topic--and CSICOP doesn't "do" research.  This is no different from close-minded religious zealots who already "knows" everything because it's written in their book.  In both cases, once you believe you know everything, you are incapable of learning anything.

#27 · Jun 16, 2005, 03:22 · Leyla

Randi seems to have a looong list of rules of behavior for which he can "reject" your application.

You have to walk on eggshells.

If he thinks you're going to pass his test and win the million he'll simply claim you broke one of the rules and refuse to test you.

Meanwhile he collects quite a bit of money in "testing fees" from people he's certain will fail.

Quite a profitable racket he's got going there.

#28 · Jun 16, 2005, 03:27 · Leyla

In order to win, someone would have to fake out Randi.

Pretend to be a total failer at first, luring him in so that he won't reject your application.

Then whammo- pass the test.

Wait...there's a "preliminary test" before the "final test."

If anyone passed the preliminary they'd be sure to break one of Randi's many "Rules" and be disqualified before ever reaching the Final.

Damn. I guess he's got it all sewed up then.