#0 · Aug 24, 2002, 22:05 · wierdzly

In the past I would accidentally wake up in the vibration or paralysis state not knowing what it was, suspecting demons. The more I feared it the more often it would happen. Before this I was to the point of dis believing anything to do with the spiritual.

Fearing mental disease or demons I (1)quit drinking and (2) would only go to sleep when extremely tired. This seemed to almost cure me, except for a few haunting occurrences.

Then (14 years later) hearing Albert Taylor on Art Bell one night, I found out another possibility of what the phenomena was.

I began practicing to re- activate the paralysis. since then I've had a few what most would call OBE'S. Now I wish to prove to myself that they are real and have been doing the card experiment.  For some reason I've had a long dry spell, and am unable to project. My method for projection has been to wake up in the "state" and then just walk away from my body. I never have been able to project directly from meditation. It's as though I'm not suppose to know. well, I intend to have my way.

What do I do?

WEIRDZLY!

#1 · Aug 25, 2002, 00:34 · ralphm

I think you should make a systematic attempt using RB's techniques(or any you feel comfortable with). Waiting for it to happen is too haphazard if you want it, Doing techniques will also show you that there is a cause and effect relationship between trying and experiencing obe's. If you were able to have them spontaniously then you will be able to bring them on if you try conciously.

#2 · Aug 26, 2002, 08:51 · Tisha

Hello!

I would avoid the card experiment during the early stages of your OBE training.  The visual distortions, coupled with your efforts to get a grip on your experience, will only frustrate your efforts.  Instead, use your early OBEs to become acquainted with the experience, and to gain control of it.

It may not be a "card experiment" that proves OBE to you.  It may more likely be an experience that convinces you.  Don't rely on your astral "eyes" to convince you that OBE is real.  Rely on your gut instead.

If you do a search on "card" in this forum you will find several posts on card experiments.

regards,

Tisha

"As Above, So Below"

#3 · Aug 26, 2002, 20:35 · wierdzly

I've now down loaded Treaties on Astral Projection: by Robert Bruce. I have one of his books already but I like the way Treaties on Astral Projection is laid out. You can step by step make a projection attempt right away. I probably just have to practice once a day until it happens. Thanks for the input from the both of you.

WEIRDZLY!

#4 · Aug 27, 2002, 03:27 · Frank

Once you start trying to "prove" things all kinds of ego attachments can come into play. The very fact you want to prove it means you have a big doubt somewhere down the line.

Doubt is a MAJOR spoke in the works .

You say you "intend" to have your way. Well, that's a positive thing because "intent" without "doubt" is a very strong mental basis to begin projecting from.

Also, if I were you, I'd forget messing about in the RT-zone and get within the Astral proper. Here you are free to meet up with guides and generally interact with other Astral residents that are open to you.

Projecting from meditation is what is generally known as a controlled, conscious-exit obe. This is extremely difficult to do! It can takes months and months of dedicated daily practice (perhaps years for some people). Though I suspect there will be a small minority who are naturals at it.

Yours,
Frank

#5 · Aug 27, 2002, 04:20 · Gandalf

[/Though I suspect there will be a small minority who are naturals at it.
Yours,
Frank
i]

Yes, Or you could get a fool like me who was able to easily project on my *very first attempt* but chickened out when I was 13.
Now that I actually *WANT* to project I cant!
I have to deconstruct all the psycological inhibitors that I have placed around AP to get a result. It's a pity because I think I would have been quite good at it, I'm not trying to boast here or anything. But I ended up shooting myself in the foot! anyway, here's hoping that I get a result soon, and that you do to!

Regards,
Douglas