#0 · Jul 24, 2002, 09:24 · jilola

Hi all

What went away has come back again http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_sad.gif" border=0>
In a previous post I asked about what feel like energy rushes after relaxing and getting a bit drowsy. Wel,, they've been hiding for a while but resurfaced again today.

The feeling is like the body is almost imperceptively vibrating at a really high frequency (very much like the feeling when the body is going to sleep, only higher) then I get a pressure sensation around the small of my back/hips area and a second later a *huge* wave of tinglies goes up my upper body and blows up in my head. The final feeling is like crown chakra gone into overdrive. It's not completely bad as sensations go but I can't see how I could weather it and not lose concentration momentarily.
The cycle repeats itself every 5-10 seconds and varies in intensity.

Now with all the talk about kundalini and how to mess yourselfup with it I'd like your input and advise as to what it is, should I do something about it and most of all should I attempt to get rid of it.

spare 2cents sit?

jouni

#1 · Jul 24, 2002, 13:57 · Grendel

When you say "the body", are you talking about your physical body, before an OBE, or your astral body, after exit?

#2 · Jul 24, 2002, 14:34 · jilola

There's one of the issues I have with it. I  know I haven't exited but I'm not sure whether the feeling is experienced within the physical body or within the astral and reflected into the physical.
I'm guessing based on the fact that it's preceded by vibrations that I'm in the pre-exit stage but that the sensation is likely to be in the energy body.
Another posssibility is that the feeling is caused by the astral body trying to exit but failing to do so for some reason, possibly due to me being totally awake and  aware of my physical body ie.  I'm not in  any llevel of trance when the sensations hit.
They are most frequent after a good night's sleep and after meditation but don't occur every time I meditate. They never occur unless I'm lying down.

2cents

jouni

#3 · Jul 24, 2002, 15:23 · Grendel

I was curious, because I have the same "problem" I think.  At any point during the day, when I think about it, I can raise a huge level of energy in my body.  It starts in my back/chest and flows up to my head.  It's so much that it almost paralyzes me.  It doesn't hurt, it's just a LOT.  It's almost as if I was doing the Mind Body Awareness from AD, and it went horribly wrong (Or right for that matter)  It's the same buzzing as MBA/energy work, but it's just amplified 1000 times.

The problem is that when I'm meditating, etc.  When I start to get my vibrations, I get the same huge rushes of energy, except this time it's involuntary.  My whole physical body tenses up with them, and almost trembles slightly.  It's hard to explain.  Takes me right out of any trance I have going though.

Does that sound anything like what's happening with you?

#4 · Jul 24, 2002, 15:30 · jilola

Oh yeah, sounds exactly like mine. Take your basic goose bump feeling and add zeroes... I've managed to activate my crown chakra and the feeling is a slight tingling but this is just waaay more intense. And it doesn't happen unless I'm horizontal.
It doesn't hurt. I don't get any tenser really but as the feeling moves through the body it leaves me acutely aware of my physical(?) body.

It could be a good thing if I could get some control.
nice (or depending on how you feel about it sorry) to hear someone else is experiencing this as well. At least I now know it's real.

2cents

jouni

#5 · Jul 25, 2002, 07:25 · Grendel

Just out of curiosity, can you control this surge at all?  I'm not talking about stopping it when it comes on (I can't stop it either), but actually trying to induce it?  The last day or so I've tried going with it instead of fighting it.  I bring it on, just like energy work, and I keep bringing it on.  I keep raising the level bit by bit.  It's kind of like working a muscle though, I can only raise it so much, then I have to relax a second.  But I can raise it pretty high.  By body shakes a little, but I just keep raising it.

Not sure if it's helping anything, but I think it is.  Maybe something you can try with it.  (If you can't beat it, join it)

#6 · Jul 25, 2002, 07:32 · jilola

Nope. Can't do anything to the rush nor can I do anything with it.
I can't even induce it willingly. It just happens aand afterwards I'm kinda lightheaded and woozy.
I think that, if it is energy related, I could learn to use it in a non-physical plane once I get there. That amount of energy (if that's what it is) when properly directed could do pretty amazing stuff I suspect. So right now I'm not too concerned (especially after last nights experiences).
How do you go about inducing it then? After a few repeats my body feels it's about to blow up and it doesn't event take many rushes.

2cents

jouni

#7 · Jul 25, 2002, 10:50 · Grendel

It's hard to explain how I induce it.  It's kind of like if you were doing a body awareness, or energy work exercise.  Except, all I have to do is give it half a thought, and it's like there's a huge chakra or something that opened in the middle of my upper back (But under the skin, like in my spine almost).  And it swells with energy and throws my whole body into a vibration state/buzz.  I can hold it for up to a minute, but then I have to let it go.  It's getting better with practice though.  But I don't know if it's something I even SHOULD be practicing.  Could it be something that's hurting anything?  I'm not even 100% sure what it is.

(And are you going to share last night's experiences? http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>)

#8 · Jul 25, 2002, 11:30 · jilola

Yikes! You can stand it for a minute?!!!! I'm having hard time with the split second bursts. A couple of bursts and they get so heavy I can't handle it any more. I think I'll try next time to hold out a while longer.
Has it helped you in any way regarding regular energy or OBE practise?

I  already posted last night's stuff. Check out "Yay! way cool night w/all the toppings...  " on OBE experiences.

2cents

jouni

#9 · Jul 25, 2002, 13:48 · Grendel

Who knows, maybe yours are more intense than mine.  The only reason I can only handle them for a minute is because it wears me out self-inducing them.  The rush itself is bearable.  Maybe I'm just used to it, or maybe mine aren't as severe, kind of hard to judge these things. http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>  In any event, aside from the physical body trembling, it helps snap/force me into a trance/meditative state if I hold it long enough.  And the more I do it, the deeper I go.  It almost feels like I'm trying to forcefully eject myself into an OBE, if that makes sense?

I've been using it instead of my regular energy work lately, because the rush is so much, that it permeates my entire body, so it seems like a moot point to do energy work on an area that already feels like it's about to blow up, you know?

The weirdest part is, it just happened one day.  I was waiting for my wife in a bookstore, before I knew anything about OBE, and saw a book about it and started reading it.  Right when I got to the part about vibrations, that's when I first felt it, like a bolt of energy through my back.  Kind of scary at first.  But then I realized I could control it, so I just thought it was kind of fun.  It wasn't until later that I read AD and realized that it might be something functional as well.  I'm just worried I'm going to blow a gasket or something with all the energy flow.  Let me know if you end up being able to change yours/stand it longer.  I'm curious to see if either one of us can get some true functionality out of it.

#10 · Jul 26, 2002, 01:28 · Frank

I get this sensation now and again. I'm not really into doing any kind of energy work so I simply assumed is was just my body doing it's "thing", so to speak.

To me it feels like an area at the top of my head is "talking" to some area of my lower back. I'll feel a kind of spasm in my head, then a big tingling sensation that runs through my upper body, then an almighty spasm in my lower back. The whole thing comes in waves that occur about 1 or 2 per second and can last for several minutes.

I've no idea what it is, exactly. Though I strongly suspect it has something to do with all these Chakra thingies people have fun stimulating.

Yours,
Frank

#11 · Jul 26, 2002, 02:39 · jilola

Frank: Sounds similar. The order of events is a bit different but I don't think that's significant. I get the almighty one in my head. As for the chakras being involved, I think it's the most likely explanation. I've read some of then descriptions of the various sensations of the Cs doing whatever it is they're supposed to do when activated and my sensations seems to be consistent with highly active chakras.

Grendel: Actually I found that I can cause it on a smaller scale and without the huge spasms bytensing something inside. I don't know what it is as I don't tense up physically so maybe it's the energy body. I'll experiment a bit and post the results when anything interesting happens.

2cents

jouni

#12 · Jul 26, 2002, 03:24 · Frank

Oh, perhaps I should also mention that the head spasms I'm very familiar with as they occur immediately prior to what I call a "travelling projection". First I get the spasms accompanied by a kind of whuuup/whoosh sound. Then I get vibrations followed by a sensation of movement.

It seems, however, that on occasion the same head spasm makes some kind of connection lower down; which gives the sensation I described in response to your original post. And I don't know if this is significant, or not, but I regularly "wake up" in a situation where my sense of conscious awareness is detached from my physical body, and I am experiencing the sensation.

Yours,
Frank

#13 · Jul 26, 2002, 03:33 · jilola

Frank: Could you elaborate on "travelling projection"?
The point you made about waking with detached consciousness is consistent with my experience. The spasms (I like the term http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>) typically occur after waking up from sleep (long sleep) or after some concentated meditation after a nap. Now that I've thoough t about the recent ones I've noticed that there indeed is a sound associated. It's like water being thrown on a hot stove.

If you get vibrations after experiencing these spasms for a while then would it be justified to assume that the spasms are a form of energetic activity and that they therefore could be used to facilitate or enhance the possible OBE following them?

2cents

jouni

#14 · Jul 27, 2002, 04:31 · jilola

Right, a little update.
Last night for th ehird time this week I was right on the verge of full conscious separation. Close but no cigar.
I did manage to experiment with the "souls spasm" phenomenon. I was on my back somewhat in a sleep paralysis and a bit tranced out. (how's that for vague? http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>)
I tried various ways of enhancing the vibrations and stumbled upon a way of kida squeezing my brain, if you will, which caused a rushing spasm type of sensation albeit a bit less in intensity. The sensation was remarkably similar but this time worked from head to toes. The ones I described at the beginning of this thread go from lower back to head.
I was also able to extend the duration of the spasm to a second or two.
Judguing from the similarity to the normal vibrations and the fact that I was able to control the intensity I'm confident that this spasm sensation is usable in some way, maybe only as a tool for inducing more intense vibes or maybe as something after the actual exit.

2cents

jouni

#15 · Jul 27, 2002, 07:09 · Frank

quote:
Originally posted by jilola:
Frank: Could you elaborate on "travelling projection"?

would it be justified to assume that the spasms are a form of energetic activity and that they therefore could be used to facilitate or enhance the possible OBE following them?

2cents

jouni
I now have two types of projecting to the Astral:

The first (step-in projection) involves activating what mystics call the "third eye". Though I, personally, think of it as a kind of Astral Visual Interface. This is still a bit hit and miss for me, but I can activate this interface and still be aware of my physical body.

Then I can choose to just watch whatever images happen to be "on the screen" or mentally "step into" the image(s) whereupon I instantly lose all physical-body feeling and find myself in my Astral body standing on the Astral somewhere.

There are no vibrations associated with this, just a point that I call the "stray energy" stage where I can get to see all kinds of shadowy abstract shapes or faces which can often be accompanied by all kinds of pops, bangs, Velcro-like tearing sounds, etc. This stage quickly passes then it's like someone switched on a light, and I can see images in my mind that are as clear as the images I normally see with my physical eyes.

The second (travelling projection) involves the mental spasms we have talked about. I get a sensation at the top of my head that feels like my physical brain is contracting and releasing like it were a muscle; such as a bicep, for example, where you can easily tense and release the muscle. Only it comes across as an uncontrollable spasm that has been triggered.

When it first happened it shocked me out of it. But after it happened about 10 times, or so, my protective sense of awareness became used to the sensation.

I found if I just laid back and allowed the spasms to continue, they would increase in frequency and turn into what I instantly recognised as my familiar pre-exit vibrations that I used to always have. Only this time everything was happening in a *much* more controlled way.

Normally, before, I'd suddenly wake up from a lucid dream feeling powerful vibrations. Then I'd get a feeling of shooting off at high speed and after a few seconds I'd land on the Astral somewhere.

Now, the vibrations gradually increase in intensity and there is a point where I feel a slight turbulence. It's a sort of bobbing and rocking feeling like if you were in a canoe and you got caught in the wake of a speed-boat. Which I now recognise as the point of separation.

Next, I slowly begin to travel to a place on the Astral. I might go upwards for 5 seconds or so, then feel myself taking a right turn and travel in that direction for a short while. Then go upwards again and then maybe down. Sometimes I speed up, sometimes I slow down. At the moment, It really does feel like I am being directed to some specific place.

The sensation is like it would be if you were in a light aircraft, sitting in the passenger seat wearing a blindfold, and the pilot was performing some basic manoeuvres. All the while I am travelling, I feel a constant buzzing kind of vibration of the like I set off with. (A big problem for me at the moment, whilst I am in this travelling phase, is I don't have any sight. But I'm working on it.)

Next I feel like I have stopped and the vibrations will stop at the same time. Whereupon I find myself at some place within the Astral and I have my sight back. So I think what I'm probably doing is still holding my "eyes" closed like I would do before when I'd shoot off at high speed.

Yours,
Frank

#16 · Jul 27, 2002, 07:23 · jilola

Excellent reply as always, Frank!

Yes, the way you describe the beginning of travelling projection is consistent with the spasmic feeling I get. Actually during the day I've managed to get soe control over the spasm in the sense that I can get the contracting feeling and after a while a tiniest of vibrations even when going aout everyday business.
Also last night the "almost exits" I had started with a tingling on the top of my head and then built into a full body vibrations. The third eye was also active and possibly caused some confusion as I wasn't sure which one to focus on. What you're saying about two different kinds of projection makes sense in that respect.
Allso the degree of control agreees withthe experiences I've had. Sometimes I blank out and the find myself struggling to exit ie. discrete process, other times the pre-exit phase feels more like a continuous one.

From your description about the events after exit it I'm guessing you end up somewhere other that the real time plane(?).  Do you have any idea where in the astral you are or have any control over the destination?

2cents

jouni

#17 · Jul 27, 2002, 12:53 · Frank

The brain spasms most often occur after I have used the "step into" technique. But I can initiate them from a "mind awake, body asleep state". But not from having any sensation of the physical like I can in the initial remote-viewing phase where I am totally aware of my physical body.

Getting to a true "mind awake, body asleep state" is difficult. I have found it much easier to first activate (for want of a better term) my Third-Eye. This I can do whilst retaining full feeling of the physical.

So I lay back, basically relax, and place my focal point of awareness about the middle of my forehead. I play around mentally massaging the relevant area of my brain and, after about 10 minutes or so, I start getting inklings of Stray Energy.

I pass through this stage and the switch is thrown and I get images of the Astral proper. Next I mentally step into these images then put out a yearning to travel elsewhere.

NOTE: The only reason I step-into the images is that it is a handy way of quickly dumping the Physical.

Then normally, after a few seconds, I get the brain spasms followed by vibrations and travel to wherever. (I'm still working on travelling to places in particular.)

My travelling to the Astral used to consist of a feeling like I had been shot from a cannon. And it is only just recently I have managed, after around 6 months of experimentation, to get a higher degree of control of the projection experience.

I always end up within the Astral because that is where I want to be.

Projecting for the first time into the RT zone was a bit of a let-down as I only managed to do it after having had hundreds of Astral Projections spanning around 15 years. As a result, the novelty quickly wore off (the Astral is a much more exciting place).

If you find yourself at the "turbulence stage" I mentioned in my previous post, just increase the vibrational frequency a tad more, roll to one side and you will "flop out" into the RT zone.

But I have been experimenting holding a particular image in mind prior to moving of and, just recently, I came to the same place twice in a row. So maybe that's the key.

Yours,
Frank

#18 · Jul 27, 2002, 13:04 · jilola

I've found that the mind awak-cody asleep condition hard to reach as well. I can get my arms and leg disappear pretty easily but my torso just hangs on there. This is probably because of breathing movements and my tendency to focus a bit on breathing at the beginning of a session.
Third eye. Now that's one thing I don't have any trouble with. It seems to switch on when I as much as thing about activating it. Quite the nuisance when  I just want to go to sleep.

I've tried the brain massage technique the last week or so (since you described it on a post) and it seems to produce results. The experiences I've described on a couple of recent posts are the result of your technique.
My spasms seem to come before any switches get thrown since I don't have any sight of the astral save some fleeting vision type things.

I thought a bit about the weird way you travel to the astral (left-right-up-down etc). Do you think it's because your eyes(astral) are closed and you're flying by feel, sort of groping around and eventually stopping at a place that somehow strikes a chord with you? Your increased contr4ol now causes you to seek the destination more selectively. The cannonball exit would be then consistent with having a definite goal of getting to the astral.

2cents

jouni

#19 · Jul 27, 2002, 13:47 · Patty

Great thread. I'm going to save it. I think it will help me.

Thanks,

Patty

#20 · Jul 28, 2002, 20:07 · Adam

my 2 cents....

These energy sensations; I'd say they're a natural thing. They might be scary....but I'd say that's your ego going: "Argh! What is this? I need to know what this is.....how can I control it? ??? "

Why control? Why not let it happen? Go with the flow!

It's like this: if you suddenly became aware of your digestive process, would you try and control it? .....i'd just let it happen. It's been happening for your whole life, naturally, perfectly, so why would you need to control it? Let it happen! Same with your heart. Same with sleeping. etc. etc. etc. etc.

The only difference is, these energies are new....the unknown! So fear crops. Then your ego try to resist this fear, by resisting. .... ... .. .. .. so, to conquer this, it's not about the energy sensations, their normal. New, unknown, scary, but normal. I get sensations where theres this rush of energy, and sometimes I just blank out. I don't think I can handle the energy just yet. So I let it come....I don't resist it, that just creates problems.

So......stop resisting! Go with the flow. Let it happen. You are *evolving*. This is part of that process - or so I believe.

Growth is a natural part of life. In fact, I would go so far as to say it IS life. Change is the only the thing you can ever be sure of. Let the change come, don't resist. The ego wants to resist, it wants illusion, not the truth, because it's afraid of change. So allow it to happen. Allow the growth. Easy! =)

#21 · Jul 29, 2002, 00:22 · jilola

Adam: Thanks for reminding me about the basics. Your point is well taken and thats exactly what I've been trying to accomplish, just letting it happen http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>. The problem is that the sensation totally blows my concentration. It's like being electrocuted (done that, wasn't fun at all) but from the inside out.

The consensus of this thread seems to be that the spasms are indeed energy rushes of some sort, that they are a great deallike the exit vibrations and that they can be controlled and somewhat induced.
What kind of energy it is is another question. There was an intenresting thread about kundalini. I wonder if the spasms have any relation to K given the way they occur and how they seem to strat from the same general location. This was the original reason for asking about the sensations given that Robert's opinion in his book is that K should be treated with due respect.

2cents

jouni

#22 · Jun 24, 2003, 15:24 · jilola

Just wanted to update this thread of new developments.

During the last few weeks the spasms have yet again returned. This time their frequency is much higher, almost constant.
Also there's a marked increase in chakra (base, heart, brow, crown) activity. Perhaps the spasms are somehow kundalini related.

Whatever, I'm enjoying myself and learning lots in the meantime.

2cents & L&L
jouni