#0 · Jul 14, 2002, 10:10 · Grendel

Last night, I woke up half way, and thought I'd try for an OBE again (Have yet to have one).  I got up the vibrations, the ringing in my ears, started seeing flashes of light, I was well on my way, I think.  But then an overwhelming sense of fear came over me.  Not the usual kind of fears like "Can I get back into my body", or any one specific fear.  But rather, a sense of dread.  A feeling like "You should NOT be doing this."  I was actually genuninely scared.  And that's fairly unusual for me.

Has anybody else ever had that sense of something's wrong?  That maybe it would be better to try for an OBE later?  Or maybe that something really, really bad is waiting for you on the other side?  I've read about people having run ins with negs, etc.  And I wonder if maybe you can sense that they are there before you get OB?

#1 · Jul 14, 2002, 10:15 · Tom

For about two years I came close to giving up on trying to learn to project consciously because it seemed both dangerous and unrewarding. It took that long to fight these thoughts, which did not make sense to me on any level. I had heard that there are fears related to OBE and I believed that this is what it was and it happened to everyone. It was probably just the things that other people taught me as a little kid coming back to haunt me. It began to sound like those people over those two years. It was just their words bubbling up from some part deep within my mind where I had locked it all away years ago. Of course, I am still not there yet, but it is easier to try it and the terrible levels of fear are gone.

#2 · Jul 14, 2002, 10:59 · Grendel

That was one of the options I was thinking of.  I remember as a kid, a teacher was telling us about an OBE she had.  When I told my Mom, who was into Tarot, and other Misc. things, she said, "Don't do it, it's dangerous.  I tried it once, and made it half way out and got scared.  It's very, very dangerous."  I really never thought about it much, but maybe it is things like that coming back subconsciously to haunt me.

#3 · Jul 14, 2002, 11:17 · Patty

Hi Grendel (Isn't that from Beowulf? Neat ID.)

Here's my two cents. Take it or leave it.

I think many people - including me - have underlying beliefs that may cause fear, really awful fear. A lot of those beliefs may not even be consciously recognized. Or some of them you may know but not appreciate the ramifications of.

For example, consider that if you learn to consciously project, you may change your personal self-identity. THis can be scary - it is like watching the 'you' that you know now change into a different 'you.'  Yut it goes beyond that - what if your family finds out? Your mom said not to do it. What if your friends find out and they don't want to hang around any more?

There is real possible LOSS from this sort of change in identity. In terms of change to self image, you're not talking about getting a new haircut here, and even that is sometimes scary! Heh.

If you spend time trying to think about what the upshot of success will be - what all the possible changes in your life will be - you will identify some of the conflicting thoughts that might be causing your fear. In my opinion the reality of projecting makes it all worthwhile, and even though my circle of friends has changed, that sort of thing happens through life anyway.

I continue to have fears crop up, but once it is recognized you can usually deal with it in some way.  I was raised catholic, my biggest fear is that I am opening myself to some negative evil force when I try to project. My two coping skills are (1) to realize that we basically vacate our bodies every night anyway and (2) to say a heartfelt prayer and affirmation beforehand to a higher power.

Good luck,

Patty

#4 · Jul 14, 2002, 14:07 · rodentmouse

there is a fear which fights my attempts but  is due to wondering into the unknown.   as for "you should NOT be doing this"  really doesnt apply to me as i am extremely anxious to acheive an OBE, and i  am certain that astral travel doesnt upset universal law.
Negs scare me,  even though  i know that there is nothing to be scared of, i think its the fact that i cant just close my eyes and pretend theyre not there when i can vividly see little beings and flashes of disgusting looking faces.

#5 · Jul 14, 2002, 14:09 · Frank

That's just "stray energy" RM, please don't worry about it.

Yours,
Frank

#6 · Jul 14, 2002, 15:17 · alpha

If your looking for it you will always find something not right.
Just dont look that way. http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

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"WAKE UP!WAKEUP!WAKE UP AND LOOK AROUND YOU!WERE LOST IN SPACE AND THE TIME IS OUR HOME"
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#7 · Jul 14, 2002, 16:33 · rodentmouse

you mean they werent the negs!!!!

sheeeeesh............................ :(

#8 · Jul 14, 2002, 16:42 · James S

This is good stuff! Especially Patty's comments.
This has actually helped answer one of my own concerns mentioned in another post.

Grendel, I'd also been told it's dangerous and don't do it.

James S
(Fate amenable to change)

#9 · Jul 14, 2002, 20:34 · Woopaching

My fears I geuss are of the unknown. I haven't projected yet, but I hope to. Everytime a step further is taken, it will take two to get used to that first step. Trust, surrender your fears, and then sit back and get comfy.

Keith

#10 · Jul 15, 2002, 03:10 · Frank

quote:
Originally posted by rodentmouse:
you mean they werent the negs!!!!

sheeeeesh............................ :(
Is that what people are calling negs? All those strange shapes that can sometimes form into gargoyle-type faces and often bits of faces?

I mean, there's lots of talk about "negs" on the other forum and I can never, for the life of me, work out what they are going on about. In all my Astral adventures I never, ever came across any kind of frightful entity that was not a product of my own emotional interplay.

Problem is, though, many accounts that people have published, of sensing negative entities, are from people who do not appear to be projecting. Well, not from what they say, at any rate. But I do keep an open mind on the subject and I always wondered if there were really some kind of place where these entities lived, exactly.

I'm just wondering if the mystery of where these "negs" reside has been solved for me.

If so (okay, it does seem a bit of a long shot) then these "negs" may well be what I am calling: Stray Energy. I often pass through this stage immediately before I begin to focus-in on what I call the "Astral Proper". In fact, this stage I use as a helpful milestone that tells me connection to the Astral is imminent.

I imagine it as a kind of no-man's-land: where first I sense that my conscious awareness is drifting away from the Physical and is, sort of, half in this no-man's-land region and half in the Physical. Then there is a sensation of leaving the Physical behind completely and my conscious awareness is fully in this no-man's-land region. (This is where I have no sensation of the Physical whatsoever yet I'm not detecting the Astral either.)

Right at this point is where I often come across this Stray Energy, as I call it.

Then there is a sensation of the Astral coming into view and my conscious awareness is, sort of, half in this no-man's land and half in the Astral; whereupon I can then mentally "step into" the Astral completely.

Stray Energy, for me, can be any kind of image: from what look like abstract line-drawings and shapes; demonic looking faces (or bits of them); or they can appear more real, like, one I posted about a couple of months, or so, ago, where it felt like there was this head of a huge wolf pressed right up against my cheek.

Often these shapes are accompanied by all kinds of sounds, like, screaches; stomps; shuffles, tearing sounds, etc. To the extent where, so many times in my early projection attempts, I'd snap back to the Physical and swear there was someone stomping up the stairs, or the bedroom door or window had just slammed shut, or whatever.

What you are perceiving are merely harmless bits of stray energy that you just come to ignore. Well, that is how it was for me. I'm just thinking that maybe there are those who latch onto these images and start taking them seriously.

Yours,
Frank

#11 · Jul 15, 2002, 03:40 · shandor

Grendel I know exactly what your talking about i had exactly the same thing , I too heard and read about fear stuff assosiated with OBE's and thought I'd overcome all my fears ,death, dying , what if's etc but when it came to the crunch ie right before an exit during the vibration stage ,this overwhelming deep ,deep fear came over me that was unexplainable and something I'd never experienced ,it was more than fear it was something terifying the most fearful fear one could never imagine  and i couldnt go through with it.......the next time it happened ,because I was slightly familiar with "it" the second time, I was able to stay calm and go through with the projection and once out of my body it went away .......and I hav'nt had it since....I have a few theories myself ,1. could be a safety mechanism to stop those who arnt completely ready for the experience 2. Childhood memory recall of primal fear assosiated with birth or somesort of pastlife primal fear 3. Or something to do with the vibration frequency ,if your energy levels are low you could be vibrating at a lower frequency on exit and thus resonating with lower frequency energy's or energy forms (scary lower astral stuff)......good luck

spz

#12 · Jul 15, 2002, 05:08 · jilola

Frank: Thanks for putting the question out. I've been wondering about the infamous negs as well but haven't gotten around to posting aquestion.
From all descriptions of the exit phenomena it's easy to draw similarities to the hallucinatory effects one experiences(mine anyway) in a sensory deprivation chamber. All the sounds, visions, feelings sound quite like what a mind invents when there isn't enough external stimulation.
Now, given that after hitting th trance state and calming thhe surface mind there isn't much of internal stimulation to speak of either, I'm not suprised how real and powerful these phenomena get.

But if negs are only stray elergy ala Frank or transient hallucinations ala me then what's this talk about having a neg attached (which I suspect intimidates a lot of folks on the verge of OBE). Are they actual entities or only persistent visual/tactile/aural(sound) creations of our spooked subconscious?

Jouni

#13 · Jul 16, 2002, 14:51 · cainam_nazier

Grendel,

Some times you don't always need to know the "why" but you should just trust you instincts.  My motto is, "If it feels wrong don't do it."  Don't think of it as there was something waiting for you, that is the wrong mind set.  Simply acknowlage it as your mind, body, or instincts telling you that it just wasn't a good time.   There could have been a hundred different reasons for it, don't ask too many questions.  It was just bad timing, there is always next time.

David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com
I am he who walks in the light but is masked by the shadows.

#14 · Jul 17, 2002, 00:46 · ralphm

When RB was interviewed by art bell he spoke briefly about entities hanging around whose job is to keep people in their bodies. Unfortunately he did not say more and the subject is not in his book. Maybe they are just projections of a persons subconcious, creations of the catholic church, who knows. I think i saw mothman once when about to project but it did not scare me. I am more afraid of the 'unknown'

#15 · Jul 17, 2002, 03:36 · Frank

Jouni, I really don't know anything more about these "negs" and, to be absolutely honest, the thought that some kind of "neg" could become attached to me makes me chuckle.

Personally, I think it is a ridiculous concept that has been born from mankind's seemingly innate yearning to destroy itself. Plus, there is a *lot* of room for misunderstanding the obe process.

Like, I read a post from someone who said they were in the beginning stages of projection and it felt like someone was pulling them out of their body. They instantly became fearful thinking it was some kind of demon or other trying to grab hold of them.

But what this person obviously does not realise is the Astral body has a biomagnetic attraction to the Astral which you can often sense as a kind of tugging.

Yours,
Frank

#16 · Jul 17, 2002, 06:19 · Woopaching

Ralphm,
I can see the sence in those beings keeping us in our bodies. But I look at it slightly different. Rather than the entities being simply pestering by doing this, perhaps it is one being. A gatekeeper so to speak that moderates the flow between the physical and etheral. I have no verification for this thought, but wanted to throw it out anyway.

Thanks,
Keith

#17 · Jul 18, 2002, 01:58 · Cylentpanthur

On the whole subject of overwhelming feelings of wrongness. I have several friends who deal a lot with the energy and intuition aspect of things, and they've been helping me through things. The other day, I went to bed, and couldn't sleep. I was sure someone was going to die, or something just awful was about to happen. I talked to a friend about it, and he said he'd gone through several bouts of the same thing. He said as you grow and become more sensitive to the energy around you, this is simply your body getting used to it.

MEOW http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_sleepy.gif" border=0>