#0 · Jul 10, 2002, 18:19 · alpha

Hello,
Ive been thinking about a family member.Do you get trapped in the lower planes  if you kill youself?The remote viewing episode I had.I dont know if you read it.But I lifted a little boy out that appeared to be trapped.And a moment later I got a vision of the same little boy running away.

This boy looked alot like a cousin of mine when he was little.Theres alot of things that I think could of lead him to be trapped..Around that age I saw "him" as he was abused in one of the worst ways.If you know what I mean.But it was very dark so I could be wrong.So I just wanted to know what you guys think on this?Im not ready to go calling out to spirits yet.I feel i dont have enough experience.Maybe he is free already.Maybe that wasnt him.I know you cant answer these questions for me.But do you think It could be possible?

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"WAKE UP!WAKEUP!WAKE UP AND LOOK AROUND YOU!WERE LOST IN SPACE AND THE TIME IS OUR HOME"
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#1 · Jul 11, 2002, 02:52 · alpha

I can see why noone really wants to touch this.Its alright this happened like 7,8 years ago.I wasnt really too close to him.I hardly ever saw him.Its just weird how out of nowhere I saw that boy, I didnt actually see my hands lifting him.He just rose up and I put him down on the side just like I wanted too.

So I think maybe it could of had something to do with my relative..I havnt read anything about something like this.So I ask what you think?Im not certain about anything here.And I do have an over active imagination sometimes http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>But I never see things that I imagine.

I was just lying in bed in trance going for an obe.Than I got that dark image of the little guy crying and calling out for someone.So I helped him.

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"WAKE UP!WAKEUP!WAKE UP AND LOOK AROUND YOU!WERE LOST IN SPACE AND THE TIME IS OUR HOME"
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#2 · Jul 11, 2002, 04:34 · alfa_33au

Hey alpha,

I dont know much on this topic, but have often wondered.
Went to funeral of a hanging not so long ago.
I have a deep feeling it is an act of courage, some say weakness.

But i have read that it can be a drive of previous memory.

Like repeting itself, till the lesson is learnt.

They are loved also.  Special care for these cases , as i understand.

Bless them for their courage.
Paola

#3 · Jul 11, 2002, 05:23 · WalkerInTheWoods

I really cannot answer your question, but I do think that whatever happens to them would depend on their state of mind. If a person felt that the only way out of a situation that was very harmful to them, such as abuse by a guardian, then they may not be too bad off as their state of mind could be positive that there are better things on the other side and they are going to seek them. But if someone is very depressed with little or no hope then they may not find much happiness on another plane as they are most likely drawn to the lower levels. But I do think that these people can be helped and move to higher planes. Of coarse these are just ideas. I really cannot say for sure.

#4 · Jul 11, 2002, 10:40 · Frank

To commit suicide you'd have to be in a pretty badly screwed emotional state. Problem is, these people think that doing away with the Physical body will, in some way "put them out of their misery".

Difficulty with that is, their screwed, collective sense of conscious awareness doesn't actually reside within the physical body at all. It resides in the body they are left with after they mutilated the physical carcass.

In a sense, "suicide" could be considered a basic learning process, albeit a rather drastic one.

Yours,
Frank

#5 · Jul 11, 2002, 18:08 · Tia

Gosh, I hate to think that there is more suffering 'over there'.  I was hoping this was it...

#6 · Jul 12, 2002, 00:09 · astralmaster

I don't pretend to be an authority on the subject, so what I say is just my thoughts – I don't even have an opinion. I think the subject is much more complex than we think.
But what if the 80 year old man was supposed to go through his suffering? Maybe by cutting the cord, he is leaving this life unfinished, or incomplete. This is what I once read in one of Elisabeth Kubler Ross' books.
The same goes for the divorcee, maybe in order to fully complete his "self" he needed to suffer, without taking the quick way out.

David

#7 · Jul 12, 2002, 00:40 · weagle

technically we're supposed to endure any pain in life mentally or physically just like Jesus endured the pains on the cross and the guy who betrayed him Judas hanged himself, if he repented asked for forgievness he would of been spared.  If you are suffering from spiritual attack and it causes you to commit suicide (or you're born with a mental illness physically)I don't think you end up in hell but you're still in the low planes some call those plains purgatory (remission of sins by reliving them over again til you correct yousrelf).   But if you take your life because your life wasn't doing great then I think you have responsibility there and be judged accordingly (just like Judas for example who hanged himself he was sane).

I know of one guy who astral projects (professional like robert bruce) and said of his relative who took his life with a gun, and he was in hell/lower astral plains and the only way he could save him is to take the guys sin and relive them in his life which the angel told him so it wasn't worth it  so he didn't bother so it could be "dangerous" sometimes to even try and help souls that are lost for good, I guess it's different if they're in pugatory or close to heaven and need some assistance.

#8 · Jul 12, 2002, 03:53 · alpha

thank you for all your posts on this,
If I get another oppurtunity to help.Ill do what I can.And that goes for any other trapped souls im shown.As long as no angels tell me otherwise..I wouldnt have just got that vision for no reason right?.See that s.abuse was just the start.Things only got worst.He eventually turned gay.But I think he may just have been one of those confused ones.Because of what happened to him.I mean he had the prettiest ladies that I often drooled over. http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_big.gif" border=0>

I never knew he was till someone mentioned it to me.That the paper said he was openly gay in school.It didnt really bother me.Just kind of a shock because I had no clue.

I think some people are actually born that way,alot more  just go that way from things like this..He got beat up in school alot and picked on..You guys know how people treat them.So I dont think he would actually be stuck in damnation forever.Definetely was hurting bad to do something like that.It was after a fight,about what I dont know.Even with all this he was always trying to help others with there problems.He tried to help me out once,but the only one who could help me,was me. http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

I dont think suicide is an act of courage.But I guess there are certain circumstances where it could be.Heres something I was thinking about.Couldnt sleep so I thought about this.

What would be easier.To thread water in an ocean of monster waves and very strong currents,without a raft or a piece of land to be seen anywhere in sight.You dont know if you will ever get out.(this is how the world will look if you are not looking at it the right way)And it will get so overwhelming painful at times.

You could let yourself sink and just drown like alot of people have done and will do..Is that courage?

Hey alfa nice name. http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>I dont want you to take offense to that.You helped me have this idea with what you mentioned.I agree with what you say about a drive of previous memory.I know  that has alot to do with it.And some people have it so bad.They feel that they have no other choice.But most of the time they do have  another choice.And its just to go on paddling away,in another direction.Eventually you will come across something.

I hope that you are right about this-Special care for these cases.Because I feel that this could be impossible for some people.If they have been through too,too much pain.And they have no way of getting away from it.Noone deserves to be trapped because of bad  things others have done on to them.Or diseases and pychological problems,and stuff like that http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_sad.gif" border=0>

.They must be taken into account.If god is so loving than I dont see why not.

ah Id love to write more but im going to bed now...NIGHT!

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"WAKE UP!WAKEUP!WAKE UP AND LOOK AROUND YOU!WERE LOST IN SPACE AND THE TIME IS OUR HOME"
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#9 · Jul 12, 2002, 06:11 · WalkerInTheWoods

I do not believe that anyone is put in a hell for eternity for any reason. You create your own "hells". If someone kills themself because they are very depressed and have left hope then they will find themself in such a place. In a way I think you are right, weagle, about them having to live things over and over again. I think that they will be in a place that forces them to deal with these things that they killed themself over, not the events but the emotions. They will have to deal with depression and get over it before they can move on. If you wanted to help the person you would have to go to this place and be engulfed by depression or whatever inorder to help them. If you felt you could handle this then it would not be a problem for you.

#10 · Jul 12, 2002, 15:35 · kakkarot

life is a choice; in order to live, you must want to. if you want to die, then who is to say that you cannot kill yourself? who has control over your life? if you should decide to kill yourself, why should anyone say you cannot, or that doing so is evil? it is a choice. you were given the chance to live, and so you can decide to die instead.

the biggest question is: Why do you even bother to live? if you cant answer that, then why do you bother to still be here?

~kakkarot

Secret of Secrets

#11 · Jul 13, 2002, 07:26 · Frank

It is not so much the method of physical death that is important. It is the level of emotional activity. Problem is, you cannot actually kill yourself. Sure, you can place the physical body in a situation where it will no-longer continue to function. But you are still left with You at the end of the day.

Yours,
Frank

#12 · Jul 13, 2002, 14:47 · alpha

kakkarot
Hey!I know where your coming from with that.Wasnt it you who posted on one of my threads?The one where I never wanted to leave the astral.If it was I remember what you said.I dont agree with what you said than and now.No offense :)

Im quoting Frank here because from my experiences I know this to be true.
"To commit suicide you'd have to be in a pretty badly screwed emotional state"When you are feeling this way or somewhere in between,you are not seeing with your own eyes.You are not even hearing your own thoughts.

Look everyone of us has a million and more reasons to live.But you forget that they are there.Alot of people living right now cant even see them. Would you like to know what they are?Heres a just a few things I live for now.

The great ocean  close by.The sun and the rain,even those gloomy days I love.The stars and the moon.All the animals of the world,they dont ask what the hell am I doing in life?What is the meaning of my life?They just know.For that Ive always loved them.I could go on and on.How about waking up and finding yourself burnt to a crisp by the sun.lol

I added that to show  that even bad things can be good if looked in the right way.I find myself laughing to myself when I bring that one up. http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_big.gif" border=0>

Just look for the little things,they may not mean much to some people.But right now they mean everything to me.I didnt even mention the people in your life because it was just me for a what seemed like a very long time.,Those things are always there for all of us especially for the times when you are all alone..And one dream I had one day way back  kept me going.It was a dream of what it could be like for me.I hung on to it.Now I am almost there. http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

Ah what else can I say?Do you know what kind of an impact a suicide has on people.I saw first hand.My relatives funeral they were thousands.Im not exageratting,more like under.How do you think it made them feel?Particullly the ones he was trying to help out.The ones that were feeling suicidal themselves.GOODBYE HOPE,Everyone that was there will never forget the day.

gotta go alph

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"WAKE UP!WAKEUP!WAKE UP AND LOOK AROUND YOU!WERE LOST IN SPACE AND THE TIME IS OUR HOME"
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#13 · Jul 13, 2002, 18:11 · alpha

just a few more things Id like to add,
In that kind of a mind state.Noone is there but you.When people try to help you,You tend to bite there hands off. http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_wink.gif" border=0>If he only saw how many people actually cared.It would of never been that way.But you cant see when your eyes are shut,no matter how many friends you have..I dont harbor anything against him.And for some reason I was never angry at him for what he did.I just hope that he can forgive himself.So he can go up to where he belongs.

I know he was sorry for what he did,from something I forgot about.Or maybe I wasnt even told than..Strangly my brother mentioned something about this today.I didnt say anything at all.We were just at the reservation.Riding mountain bikes in some crazy trails..We started talking about ghosts,I brought it up about how there could be indians all around us.Just more of a joke thing.But I know now that something like that is quite possible..And he told me he didnt believe in them.But I said I did.And he told me this, how when my cousin died.

Alot of my fam. members got a phone call,Someone saying goodbye a little lator than the time of his death.My brother said he picked up the phone  he heard someone saying bye and that was it.Imediately after a few other family members called my brother.several of the younger ones in there teens.They experienced the same thing.Noone knew what had happened yet.

thats about it,sianara!
Suicide is not the answer to all suffering!

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"WAKE UP!WAKEUP!WAKE UP AND LOOK AROUND YOU!WERE LOST IN SPACE AND THE TIME IS OUR HOME"
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#14 · Jul 13, 2002, 18:41 · jilola

The way I see life is that we are taking a course of applied existence. We need to go through it no matter how bad it gets. Anyone can drop out(suicide) at any time and in doing so they end up where ever they believe they should end up, be it heaven or hell. After a while those who remain behaind (ghosts etc) will understand that they dont have to stay what they've become.
Each life is a lesson that we have to learn sooner or later. It is our choice to go through with the lesson or give up, but We will have to learn the lesson eventually.

Personally,  I've been in a pretty bad shape myself but the above philosophy carried me through ( I hate doing things twice if I can get away ith doing them just once) and I've help a few people through some seriously bad times.

We get what we believe we should get. No more, no less and life is precious.

Jouni

#15 · Jul 13, 2002, 19:56 · alfa_33au

I also wonder about medication, the person i knew ,was on antidepressents which are considered sane by society.

So many people take these now a days.
So many young school kids too.
Sad :(
regards,
Paola

#16 · Jul 13, 2002, 20:50 · alpha

alfa,
yes I feel those dont really help much at all.They just put a patch over the real problem.And they give these things to people like they are candy.Just like you say.
Ive been on a few of them for depression and anxiety.All they did was make me numb to what is going on around me.Like a part of me was missing.When I first signed up here I was coming off anti-anxiety meds.The withdrawls were terrible.They lasted for a few weeks.I feel the meds would be taken into account.From the last part of Roberts book,if it has some truth to it.Everything is taken into account.

Im off them and ive never felt better.Yah I get some anxiety now and than.But i know its not going to kill me.The meds never really stopped it.Your friend you know how he was.Im sure he was a good guy.And they might start off lower on the astral,but eventually they will go to the happy place where they belong.Maybe some day you could check up on em.I know I will eventually run into my relative,Whenever I am ready

jilola,
good for you :)Looks like youve come a long way.I agree with the things you say.And I dont remeber where I read this,But it said that suffering is growth for the soul.And It sounds like it could be true.But I dont believe in needless suffering.We should only pay for our mistakes only once!

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"WAKE UP!WAKEUP!WAKE UP AND LOOK AROUND YOU!WERE LOST IN SPACE AND THE TIME IS OUR HOME"
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#17 · Jul 14, 2002, 04:14 · Ashfo

David I might add that would this theoretical 80yr old be alive without human technology?

We faced a similar dilemma when my grandad had three strokes, was in hospital and got pneumonia... Do we give him the antibiotics or not?

In the end we decided not to and he died several days later.. Would giving him the drugs have prelonged his life beyond how long he "should have lived"?

Do we have a prescribed life length? If so do people commit suicide because they "have to get out"? Is that why those "at risk" people in mental homes with plastic knives are so troubled? It goes round in a circle - There is no answer :)

- Ashfo

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"You are First Cause. You are a portion of the great energy. And you, yourselves are thought manifestations of what you think you are."
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