#0 · Jun 19, 2002, 23:04 · justinh

Hi there,

I picked up the Gateway Series Discovery (Wave I) from Monroe Products due largely in part to Frank's recommendation.  I've been doing serious meditation for about a month now, and honestly had, out of curiosity, tried some other stuff like the Brainwave Suite which supposedly changed brainwave patterns to make you relaxed, relieve stress...

Anyway, IMO, I didn't expect too much from the Gateway Series.  The brainwave suite did almost no noticeable things for me, but I thought I'd give it a shot.  What I ended up with wasn't some music or ambience, but rather an instructional tape with some subtle, almost nonexistant, background tones at points.

I ran through the first few exercises pretty quickly, having been familiar to trance work, quieting the mind, relaxation, etc.  I have to admit, though, that the hemi-sync exercises did put me into a strange vertigo state, kinda felt like my whole body was strapped sitting into a barrel that's rolling down a hill, or bouncing around inside a dryer.  It's pretty subtle, but the notion is definitely something I didn't experience on my own meditations beforehand.  I also experience this, now, without the use of the hemi-sync tapes.

I can also reach this state quickly, which is something that I could not do beforehand.  I often took hours to get to such a relaxed state.

I can personally vouch that there's some value to be had on this thing, especially for beginners, but I haven't gotten good enough at it to see how much it can do for me.

A specific question or two for Frank:

1)  When I am in the "Focus 10" state, I get to a point where I am comfortably looking into the space at the back of my eyelids.  I then try to push, force, exert pressure, look at the third-eye area, roll the eyes back, etc, and try to invision myself "moving into" this blackness, if that makes any sense, letting it encompass me.

My latest attempt had me feeling some strange bodily sensations in the arms and legs, maybe like separatedness or numbness but weird, and it became very difficult to breathe properly and maintain this brow pressure at the same time.  My concentration didn't hold up so I broke it off.

I am trying this mainly from the bits and pieces I have heard of people doing similar things, because this isn't at all requested of you in the hemi-sync exercises...  Anyway, it seems like this would be the way an OBE would occur - your consciousness breaks out of your perception much like that one interrogation scene in The Matrix where the camera starts out looking at a computer monitor showing the agents and Neo in the "green room", then progressively moves toward the computer monitor until it goes through it and into the actual room itself where the scene plays out.

Sorry, I can't think of a better analogy...

Anyway, Frank, does your OBE-induction technique follow along those lines?

2) Also, are you able to easily fall asleep to the fifth exercise?  I have trouble with this one, even if I am extremely tired.  I just can't sleep when I know I have a running countdown going, expecting me to pass out...

Thanks,
Justin

#1 · Jun 20, 2002, 01:03 · bitsmart

A quick note, I keep seeing a phrase similar to 'forcing the eyes to roll up.' I initially tried this same thing, and it did nothing for me. Very recently, in the past few days, I've been getting better at deep trances, and I find the tendency is for my eyes to automatically roll up, if I let them. Just thought I'd share.

bitsmart -
information illumination -
bitsmart@bitsmart.org -

#2 · Jun 20, 2002, 01:55 · PeacefulWarrior

I find I have the tendency to do this as well, and sometimes it hurts my eyes...I am anxious to hear from someone who may have some understanding of this...?

fides quaerens intellectum

#3 · Jun 20, 2002, 02:32 · justinh

Well, if your eyes droop downward, you have more of a tendency to, if you relax, have your eyes drift open a bit and catch glimpses of the room around you and break your concentration.

By focusing upward more, you can eventually maintain it to the point that you can relax your eyes without fear of opening them, and then just sorta gaze into your eyelids.

I realize that some meditations call for the eyes to be half closed, though.

Anyway, that's my take on it.

Thanks,
Justin

#4 · Jun 20, 2002, 03:38 · Frank

Justin, I haven't progressed beyond the Focus 10 stage (Gateway series CD's wise) so I cannot give you any pointers beyond that. Monroe describes Focus 10 as "mind awake, body asleep". If you are feeling bodily sensations, such as you describe, then you are not at Focus 10.

I only recently managed to consciously get to this stage once just recently, as I described in a post to this thread: http://www.astraldynamics.com/forums/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=&TOPIC_ID=1141

It is very tricky to do and requires lots of practice (well it did for me, I mean).

What I would do before is to suddenly jump from a feeling of remoteness of the physical (but still having a small sensation of a physical body) to a state where I'd be viewing the Astral remotely with no sensation at all of the physical. The frustrating thing was, everytime I analysed what was happening, in detail, it did not match the state Monroe describes as Focus 10.

So I continued with my efforts to slow down the process, yet further, in order to sense it in more detail. In doing so I discovered there is an inbetween stage where, on the one hand, you have absolutely no feeling of having a physical body whatsoever, yet you are not in touch with the Astral. When I say absolutely no feeling of the physical, I truly mean absolutely no feeling whatsoever of anything to do with a physical body.

It's a feeling like you are suspended in an infinite void. I rather enjoyed it because I was happy that I'd finally discovered the state that Monroe was describing as Focus 10. But I would think if anyone just found themselves in that state, without any prior knowledge of obe, etc., it would be very scary indeed.

Problem is, I have not yet managed to repeat the Focus 10 state because it is darned tricky for me to do. But I suppose it will come to me, given practise.

Yours,
Frank

ps
I wholeheartedly recommend the Gateway wave 1 CD to anyone who is having problems learning how to project. The CD is instructional in nature: as opposed to the buzzing and vibrating noises you get on all these CD's that claim to be able to induce an obe in 20 minutes, and so forth. Which, to my mind, are just a complete con.

Plus, once you have listened to the CD for a month or two, you can run through the process to Focus 10 without any help from the CD.

#5 · Jun 21, 2002, 00:24 · Ashfo

Where can you get the CD? :D

- Ashfo

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"You are First Cause. You are a portion of the great energy. And you, yourselves are thought manifestations of what you think you are."
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#6 · Jun 21, 2002, 13:35 · Patty

I can't speak with much authority, although I do own the gateway tapes and use them. (I have also found the relaxation process within them to be more profound than what I do on my own.) But, with regards as to what focus 10 might represent - I have had interactions with various cyberfriends who have attended the Institute's in-house gateway program and my understanding is that focus 10 is variable for each person. I have certainly had a few meditations where I was both snoring (so presumably 'body asleep') and still aware of sensations within my body (such as a conscious awareness of what it feels like to snore.).   I'd absolutely love to have no sense of body, and complete awareness of mind, so I am working towards that, but I don't realy think that that is what Monroe meant by focus ten (though no doubt he experienced the sense of no-body himself.) It's also my understanding that focus ten is a starting point to 'deeper' levels, and very easy for people to learn to reach within a matter of days or weeks of practice; whereas complete mind awake - body asleep would take much longer for many people to reach.

Okay, consider my friendly disagreement voiced.

Frank, thank you for the squishy ball technique. I've tried it a few times and noticed new sensations of relaxation.  (had no idea I was carrying tension in the middle of my brain!)  Also,  I'm sure you will notice my new post regarding chakra stimulation/obe and look forward to your input.

Justin - is the fifth exercise on the first tape? If it is the one I'm thinking of, an inability to fall asleep might represent some tension?  Which from this board is thought to keep one seated firmly in house.   I'm personally on the fence on that notion, since I have two friends who 'jumped ship' to an OBE state when under extreme stress. Like the world was too stressful (both cases involved violent deaths of close family) and so, in the middle of waking conversation,  they momentarily flitted fifteen feet away where they didn't have to feel the pain.  Also, many people near death have a great deal of tension, but go back and forth from physical to non-physical.  Still, if you are carrying apprehension about needing to fall asleep on cue, you might carrying unnecessary stress.

Patty

#7 · Jun 21, 2002, 21:06 · Triss

I've been a member of The Monroe Institute for around six years.  I have not attended the residential courses but have lots of experience with the Gateway tapes, the Going Home tapes, their H-plus tapes and other experimental tapes available to members.

My experience has been that any number of bodily sensations can accompany the F10 state.  I found that with minimal practice, F10 can be achieved and stabilized with ridiculous ease.  Itching, twitching, aches, energetic sensations,   noises  (even loud astral 'booms') do not necessarily disturb the state. That was a major advantage of Hemi-sync for myself and many others I'm sure. It allows you to "get the feel" of altered states by helping you sustain them through interruptions which could potentially bump you back into 'normal' consciousness (designated C1 by Monroe)  After a very short initial practice period (a month?), I found  I was able to enter F10 in a matter of minutes, with or without the tapes.   The longest I've gone without practice is about a year, and was able to instantaneously achieve and sustain F10 again immediately when I resumed. I found and still find no difficulty achieving or  sustaining the state , without the help of the tapes.  F10 for me, has turned out to be a sort of all-purpose state from which I've been able to explore in what seems like limitless ways (so far).

Brain entrainment...worked pretty good for me http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

Just to add a thought about eye positioning during practice, I believe the upwards position of the eyeball is the natural position the muscles take in deep relaxation. I found that complete head-muscle relaxation (forehead, jaw and neck) seems  to automatically bring about the upwards eyeball position, which in itself seems to effectively aid meditation. In my experience.

#8 · Jun 21, 2002, 23:25 · Tom

Having the eyes rolled to the center and up toward the forehead directs energy to one of the main chakras. The 6th, also known as the third eye. It is a common symptom of trance states. I'm not sure if it is a cause or effect of the energy moving toward that energy center.

#9 · Jun 22, 2002, 01:13 · Frank

In my studies I always try to seek out the "original message". Problem is, over time, rationalisations are made and the original message often gets lost under layer upon layer of opinion, alternative ideaology, varying experiences, etc., etc.

Plus, these days, there is the ever present "commercial factor" which tends to act as a strong diluant. Therefore, I would ask anyone reading my above posts to add the word "complete" immediately before the statement "mind awake, body asleep".

Yours,
Frank